Forced 2-2-2 Will Set This Game On Fire

What I really wonder is if they will force anything in OWL. Having a mismatch of what your professional teams can run and what you can run in competitive is not good at all. :man_shrugging:

Point #1 is literally how supply and demand works. As tank/support main that has had to play myriad games with brain-dead DPS players that don’t have the first idea of what a proper comp is, I’m happy for them to wait and think about what they’ve done.

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He was exaggerating, if that was the case then they wouldn’t even be considering adding role que which they heavily are. DPS will for sure have longer que’s but it won’t be as dramatic as some want to believe in order to hate on role que.

No I’m definitely not. What I said is true and will remain to be true when role que goes live.

You are assuming a single way to deal with Pharah, but that is mistaken.

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Thanks to Posters like PezLex and MoonShock for replying to certain people about what I said in the OP. I made those same points in other comments, but it’s a pain digging through 200+ comments to find mine, quote what I said, and reply them to each commenter.

So, thank you for just paraphrasing what I already have said a few times in this thread. I appreciate it.

But that really isn’t an exaggeration. This game has more players than WoW. In WoW, you can choose servers, OW you can’t, so let’s assume we are all basically thrown together and just hope that we get put with players that are close to our region [not provable, but considering NA/EU, NA/SA, NA/Asia games happen, its pretty likely].

In horde, 60% of the current player population, where dungeons are a 1-3-1, DPS still have to wait a minimum of 20 minutes for a queue. I have waited upwards of an hour before.

[Edit: Sorry, I just checked. 71% of WoW is Horde with 55% at max level]

If Jeff, one of the former lead designers for WoW, says that wait times for DPS will be a minimum of 15 minutes, that is not an exaggeration.

You and I seem to see eye to eye on a lot of the topics we encounter each other on, so it makes it easier to do lol

Information, via an actually sensible Hero Select screen in the context of one’s team, and SR incentives would be a start. Not everything should start with the nuclear “free will and adaptation are overrated; we’d be better off without either” solution.

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So seriously, what kind of “actually sensible hero select screen” are we talking? I am guessing the flavor of the month Apex Legends version? SR incentives how, more incentive for just winning vs player-based metrics?

I mean it’s obvious that after three years people will not make sensible choices… or gyrate towards a easiest path meta everytime…

It’s interesting, this system is in FF online and it works well… you just have to do DPS, you wait, you’re more flexible, you play more. Seems to work wonders.

To be honest, forced 2/2/2 would solve a lot of problems. But not all of them. And will create a bunch of new ones.
I cannot agree with forced 2/2/2 until it solves next problems:

  1. What if some player love to play non 2/2/2 games? What if someone likes 3/3 or 4/2? You cannot simply ban the way they liked to play for 3 years.
  2. What about situational switches? Sometimes DPS player should quickly switch to Hammond or D.va or Winston to quickly contest last point and protect it.
  3. What about trade switches? For example, both of your tanks cannot play Winston, but you need it to counter Widow, and one of your DPS is capable to play Winston and one of tank is capable to switch to DPS. It will not be possible in forced 2/2/2.

All of that are crucial parts of gameplay. If forced 2/2/2 will ruin those parts - it would be not worth of solving other problems.

Also there is a point to admit, that 2/2/2 comps are not very much more diverse than 3/3. Actually, there are only two of them: Bunker and Dive. And Dive always dominates.
Forced 2/2/2 is a very high risk for us to return to endless dive vs dive meta, which was much more terrible than Goats, because it was played on all levels, while Goats is mostly played only on higher ranks and OWL.

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GOATS has more of an impact on low ranks than Dive ever did. The Rein-Zarya Deathball is an absolute staple of low level play, but D.Va-Winston dive was an option rather than an absolute; because it’s much harder to execute.

It won’t make Rein-Zarya Deathball go away.

This.

I’m not sure what the problem even is anyway. Most games people are willing to at least humor 2-2-2 without forcing it anyway. Even if you have a variant (1-3-2, 3-1-2, 3-2-1, whatever), unless you simply play poorly or don’t work together, the game is still winnable.

Forcing 2-2-2 across the entire game does not solve any problems. It will make DPS queues unbearable. It will cause more toxicity when someone stuck in a role is performing poorly and can’t change. It will send the game in the wrong direction and contribute to its eventual downfall.

This is a bad decision and should not be implemented.

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That simply not true at all.
Also, Rein-Zarya Deathball is not Goats. It is a part of 2/2/2 comp.

I know it’s not goats, I literally said that. What I said was the impact of goats, as a Rein-Zarya Deathball itself, is felt more heavily at all ranks than the dominance of dive ever had.

The stats are there. Rein and Zarya deathballs make up the overwhelming majority of ladder matches. There was far more diversity of tanks, at all ranks, during dive.

That literally makes no sense because there was only 2 Dive tanks in the game: D.va and Winston.
How 2 Dive tanks are more diverse than Rein and Zarya?

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That was barely true in GM, never mind any rank below.

What are you even talking about? I can’t understand what you are saying, because it makes no sense.

Well, it’d certainly stop any toxic meta from existing, so that’d be nice… But it’d be overkill.