OW is a game of Ults and nobody cares if you say to your team “got deadeye”.
Then i would give him some invulnerability frame on his roll so he has some chance to avoid damage.
And as a quality of life change i would give his flashbang 5 more damage, so the combo of flash + headshot + melee kills a 200 hp hero.
I thought the “probably, or something” would’ve made it clear I’m not serious. I’m poking fun at that line of thinking.
Imo, they’ve been slowly removing what you so fitting called “designed flaws” because the strengths and weaknesses system of balance anticipated people wanting to adapt to situations (You know, the game design the devs intended).
People don’t adapt, now everyone has to be viable all the time because “but muh main!” prevailed as the anti-meta game design failed to prevent metas from forming. Possibly because some characters had flaws that ran too deep. Torb and Symm were natural genji and tracer counters before brig was even released! They just had too many ways to be handled easily and having two skill ceiling characters have their most troubling counter picks so thoroughly handled (because how they countered them could be destroyed easily) resulted in this mess we’ve been in ever since. Even widow wasn’t a problem like people make her out to be, its just they removed her weaknesses over the course of her existence, and a skill ceiling character without weaknesses becomes a god. McCree will be ascending to such heights should this buff go through.
So we are using a pro player’s PTR video to arbitrarily decide this is how it’s going to be for the entire OW universe?
Yes, we’ve establish Pine will single handedly break the entirety of OW.
I personally hate this change. McCree’s revolver should feel like a powerful handgun, not an assault rifle.
I get really pissed about this whole McCree issue because the problem is glaringly evident: Widowmaker is better at everything McCree does. You either take out Widow’s OHKO or you rework McCree. Making his abilities and whatever spammy is not going to solve anything.
Removed Widow’s weaknesses?
Now you lost me.
All of her weaknesses are still there.
In fact, now there’s even a hero who makes you not able to die.
So… yea.
Increased charge rate, time to enter scope sights reduction and the grapple CD change are specifically what made her weaknesses extremely ineffective.
If these were reverted, her core design would remain, and her counters would go back to being effective.
And please don’t suggest immortality field as a counter to her. How many times have you seen someone overstay their welcome under that thing and instantly die the moment it’s gone? There’s so many knock backs and ways to move people out of it (as well as remove immortality field itself rather quickly) It’s at best a haphazard savior but I don’t believe I’ve seen it save anyone from widow on purpose (beyond maybe forcing them to wait it out if its not immediately destroyed).
Poor timing.
Which also makes a lot of things go wrong in this game.
These don’t do much to her direct counters…
Honestly i’m sorry, but her baseline counters are still her counters.
Her improved charge rate and scope changes were to keep up with Ana as a sniper; if they nerfed it back, we’d just go to Ashe as the default; who incidentally has a better kit for handling Tracer/Genji.
Her Grapple was reduced because Winston players were literally able to just farm her at most levels of the game, without repercussion.
What actually happened it Dive heroes were made less viable, which is helping Widow, but also massively helping Ana much more.
Hanzo still has One hit headshots and no drop off when compared to McCree…
I’d argue the grapple change is probably the biggest weakness that was removed for her, as it made her less reliant on her own team to survive, and whether the term fits exactly, it can be argued that snipers are glass cannons. Not in the same sense as bastion of course, but a character that thrives when she has an effective screen from her own team, and an attentive healer for the times when a flanker or dive tank does manage to get to her. I feel the grapple change especially was counter intuitive to the game’s design.
It was changed during the height of dive though, and she remained a poor pick on most maps because of that. Prior to the change, she absolutely was one of the worst heroes in the game.
It was only when Brig came along to break Dive’s hold on the game that she really came to the fore. It wasn’t the Grapple change that did that, and in Goats meta, she’s still mediocre for OWL and for anything not GM. It seems odd to ask for nerfs for her “dominance” as the best DPS (not outright best hero) in just one rank.
You realise McCree still has one key flaw in his kit that will never make him anymore than a counter pick right?
He counters divers and close range tanks/tank busters. So to deal with McCree up close, the other team will play further back and the further back you play the worse McCree becomes. And once McCree is no longer at a relevant range, Widow comes into play.
If you’re truly scared of a McCree meta, you should be thankful Widow exists.
Edit: By the way, McCree’s falloff is so harsh that it drops down to 35 (35 x 6 = 210, done the maths for you) damage at 40 metres, with damage drop off starting at 20, which effectively makes him a close range hero with no close range survivability.
I think You might be mistakenly talking about in-game Widowmaker.
I’m sorry for this confusion, as the conversation seems to have turned for some reason to Forum Widow. (In this Mccree thread. <~<)
Damn!! Quickly call Seagull!! He is a dev right? The OW bends to his will!!!
Right, but that’s why I believe a revert on that old buff would actually bring her into line without essentially breaking her either.
At the end of the day, when I think of balance, I don’t think specifically on “how can I make this character work better or not be oppressive” but more on the intricacies of how character picks interact, and whether or not the team-based aspect of the game is being acknowledge enough before a change is made.
At most, I’m suggesting the revert be done simply because it did what it needed to accomplish at the time, but now, in conjunction with how things have changed, it may be best to undo it.
Also for clarity: I’m playing devils advocate on this. Whether shes changed or not, the only thing I care about is if its done right.
She’s not even ‘out of line’ though, she’s a little better than a couple of other DPS in GM. That’s literally it.
But would that change absolutely break her? Or expand the options on the roster for playable characters? In the end, I don’t want to see any one character be ‘meta’ because this game’s design was supposed to prevent that from happening in the first place. Had the strengths and weaknesses balance been better maintained at least.
Outside of GM, absolutely, because she’s barely mediocre outside of GM; whether that’s Masters and down, or up into OWL.