It isn’t small think, it is totally what will happen, and nerfs will follow. We KNOW how the game is, and what the player base is like, and how the devs react.
But we know that you are NOT the person who will be doing the balancing, and that Blizzards balance will not look like that.
Because people have been suspended in the past, and they don’t want it in the future. It will 100% happen. The salt the tank players will have to put up with will be horrible.
No balance change can fix that.
Yep. But you are not the person going to do the balancing.
If you want to have a “what if” conversation, then fine, we can have one, but, people are not keen on this because they know the side effects.
IF we say you are the designer, AND the side effects go away, then we can have the chat about your suggestions, but, the base idea isn’t going to play out well.
If you want to chat about the balance changes, I’m up for it.
But stuff like…
You NEED these people to queue for tank / support. You can’t dismiss their concerns. The last time Blizzard did this, they lost a MASSIVE part of their player base. The Mercy mains didn’t pick up new heroes, they just left.
I.e. everyone is small-minded. Suspend that line of thinking and focus on what is discussed here.
The meat of the idea is a change of balance. No one suggesting ideas on these forums is the person implementing them as Blizzard employees don’t bother developing ideas through the community. It’s a matter of persuasion and testing. I don’t think suggesting ideas is pointless.
Short of being complete idiots people don’t get suspended for hero selections. Putting up with salt is a natural part of the game.
If you want to get really technical, Widow players were falsely banned here and there. But the HUGE bombshell that everyone knows is the Fuey500 situation (Torbjorn one trick). Basically after reversing his false ban, he was suspended again with increasing severity which implies not only did they lie about the automated system, but also about removing the action from his account.
It happened to other notable streamers too. Such as Arrge, when Hanzo was a troll pick. But yeah, Stevo as is the notable Sym main, albeit, I remember on Reddit there was a big group of Sym mains who shared similar experiences.
I feel it started before, people are just slow to notice unless they pay attention to this sort of stuff consistently. The conversation intrigues me, so I have been paying attention, and yeah, it will only get worse. 321 is coming, man. I sound crazy, but I always call my shots and this one is ez mode.
Right, first of all, I want to touch on the “different sides of Balance” post, one of the issues is, that not everything is going up a the same rates.
If damage, and healing go up together, then burst eats everything alive, and healing WILL NEVER keep up.
You can’t heal dead, and you can’t heal through burst, so, unless health was ALSO increasing at the same rate, then it is a net nerf to the supports, and over time, it is a large net nerf to supports.
When people want power creep reverted, they mean, raise TTK, so that mitigation has time to take place.
I personally think that supports should get more DPS helping powers rather than healing because we can’t buff healing and have it work…
Ok… with that in mind, lets get to the rebalance.
A lot of this would be better which a talk on why, but, I’ll just make guesses.
The side sections are a little weird, but I guess you would just curve the shield more.
The base movement I think is funny as hell, because it means people GOTTA commit to close in fighting with him, because they are NOT getting away.
This is not even a particularly scary set of buffs, the side shields is a little weird, and I guess you are trying to make it so he is safer going through the choke.
I’ll note, for the record, that there isn’t a change in Sombra’s interaction here. Once the barrier is up, she can’t force it down now. It is independent from you.
Looks like nerfs generally.
Winston becomes a beast. I can’t for the life of me work out what the tesla cannon change is for. It seems annoying for 0 gain. I wouldn’t go there.
The cooldown changes will make him basically unkillable. Seriously. No one will kill him, like, ever… I think they go WAY too far.
The reversion of the nerf to redeployment is a straight out Sombra nerf. It was put in there so she could have time to get in a hack. You could NEVER run Sombra into a team running this Sigma. You couldn’t do it. I’m not sure if that is by design, but I don’t think it is a good idea.
I get that she is annoying, but, but almost lowest pick DPS needs to be able to be played somehow.
Apart from that, I am a little weirded out by Kinetic Grasp blocking Rein shatter. Since a redeploy on Experimental will 100% block shatter.
GA is basically unchanged, since, it is rare you run into it’s restrictions now.
Valk will still be used to gun down people, because it is the only way she has impact. Now she will be safe while she does so, but, ultimately, she will pull the pistol and go to town.
One shots will still completely counter her, Damage boost is now, perhaps pointless.
it is like the problems with her cranked up to 11, rather than solving her issues, but I am not sure you could while Valk still exists.
Unsure what to do about Sombra entirely negating Sonic Barrier
She is the lowest win rate / pick rate combo in the game, You seem to really have a “lets just delete her” going on, and I’m not sure it is healthy. You SHOULD make hack not make him fall of the wall though (funny as it is)
You will have to have a plan for dealing with her, that isn’t “remove the last trace of her” - you will have to rework her into a different hero.
Soundwave change seems kludgy, I’m not sure when or if you would ever use it.
So Zen loses charged up shot? JJonak nerf cuts deep. Mind of Buddha would remove forcing out Trance.
I think Ana is an overall nerf. I’ll see if I can link to the post on why - it is interesting reading, on the nature of healing.
With the Sombra comments, I knew Mei would be talked about. I suspect the plan is to dumpster her, rather than move her to tank.
Bastion is tricky. I’d make him more dangerous, but make it so Sentry is on a timer… That way you can be free to dangerous him up, and NOT have pirate ship, or low ranks be out of control.
Torb is strong at low ranks, and weak at high ranks, you have made him stronger at lower ranks, and even weaker at higher ranks. I’m not sure this is a good idea.
That is a HELL of a buff.
It recharges AMMO against barriers. Personally I’d make it barrier stealing, so she would be stronger when she is close up and in danger, without making her stronger at range.
In general with main tanks the emphasis is on strengthening their barriers/shields. I gave Reinhardt and Orisa an extra 50 armor, Winston 50 health, and Sigma 100 health and 50 shields to bring him up to par without nerfing his damage as I haven’t noticed it being oppressive. I didn’t think I needed to dramatically improve their “health”.
Reinhardt
The side sections are intended to be perpendicular for Sombra protection as his shield is most vulnerable to her. Hell, you might even give him a top section too. I was just thinking about the movement speed and perhaps it’s best if when using his Rocket Hammer/left click his speed is reduced by 10%/brought back down to normal. This would have to be done in such a way as to not be exploitable with animations, perhaps some sort of cooldown is to be involved. I do like the idea of him moving a little faster when walking and when using his shield, which slows him down. I’m also going to shave 5 damage off of the Fire Strike buff.
Orisa
Obviously her shield is buffed, and perhaps it would need to be buffed a little more. You’re underestimating changing the movement speed penalty when she’s firing from 30% to 10%. I even considered removing it entirely. From the go I gave her in the practice range her damage is scary. It seems like her spread has been tightened and she crits. She actually reminded me of Soldier 76. Given that she’ll be doing more shooting and is meant to have an effective barrier her damage absolutely needed to be nerfed. I improved her reload time, on the other hand. Also, this stuff was being posted before the recent nerfs to her, whatever they were. I certainly didn’t intend to weaken her Fortify and even considered improving her pull.
Winston
Winston may become tougher to kill but his damage is still low and if he’s disengaging he’s not pressuring. Keep in mind he can’t be paired with other shield tanks - only with D.Va, Hammond (whose role becomes interesting and he might need nerfs), Roadhog, and Zarya. The mini-stun is meant to make him more abusive and give him something to aim for. Perhaps its duration should be reduced to half a second.
Sigma
If redeploying his barrier will block Reinhardt’s ult then the Kinetic Grasp change can be removed. Didn’t the redeployment itself have some sort of small delay of .25 seconds?
Sombra
She might indeed have to be reworked, although not turned into a completely different hero. I’m not sure that she wouldn’t be able to get in a hack against Sigma given his shield is already likely to be deployed and the player would need a stunning reaction time but what she does to Lucio’s ult in this scheme is unacceptable. Perhaps what needs to be done is mitigate her effect on Lucio’s ult with her ult.
Mercy
The duration of Valk is dramatically reduced and power is shifted to her healing. As a main support she needs to be able to compete with Lucio and Zenyatta ults, unless we go down the Ana route and try to figure out how main supports with crappy protective ults can be run solo. I don’t believe I was a fan of removing mass resurrection. OW developers have had a history of caving into weak feelings, take for instance changing KotH from Bo5 to Bo3 because players felt devastated losing in the most competitive experience. Something countering her ult to some extent isn’t the worst thing in the world. Ana counters Zen’s ult, Sombra to some extent Lucio’s. McCree counters Zen’s ult, Genji can kill through it apparently.
Lucio
The second use of Soundwave is actually quite neat and significant. It improves Lucio’s mobility, especially vertically. He could keep up with dive comps. It would also make him more difficult to kill. You’re really underestimating its benefit to Lucio.
Zenyatta or Ana
Zenyatta doesn’t lose anything. Mind of Buddha allows him not to get massacred wherever he’s found, which is essential for him to be a main support. Unsure about the cooldown for it.
There’s no way Ana is an overall nerf. If you’re accurate it’s actually a rather scary buff.
Anti-GOATS
I did a separate thread on this:
Mei is not getting touched. No timer on Bastion’s Sentry. Increasing his spread makes him more or less ineffective dealing damage to heroes at moderate to long ranges. This was a key and I find clever nerf to him I believe following the Pirate Ship stuff. He can indeed be very abusive, not just at low ranks, and increasing his spread as much as they did went a long way toward balancing him. What they also decided to do was remove his crits, which he is regaining. Here he gains effective use against heavy compositions that lack reach and try to fight up close - GOATS-like.
There’s nothing that makes Torb weaker, lol. He gets straight-up buffed. If the turret is too much of a problem perhaps the percentage based concept can be extended to his left click too, making him become some sort of big game hunter. I can incorporate this as an alternative. Not too big of a fan of his turret being so neglected but there’s another option. Junkrat’s buff was toned down to 30-50 more direct damage in whatever the short period of time since the projectile is fired is to be and 20-30 more splash damage. In essence, a lower end on the buffs, but the idea remains if you get too close to Junkrat and he hits you he’ll hurt you more.
Symmetra I left alone, just pointed out between her Teleporter with a hero like Bastion, the left click, and the turrets she could have her GOATS deterring uses.
Goes to show you how problematic her design is. She makes the lives of tanks miserable, who are essential yet under-represented, yet is otherwise useless.
This:
It’s a nerf if your aim sucks and your headshots are ending up off the hero entirely.
And I’m reverting the tightening of his spread.
Lol, players can make their own decisions when each firing option would be more effective, especially at high ranks.
…Ok? By the way, how would the teleport be involved in this? What I noticed in the practice range is that she dealt more damage to the bots over time. Perhaps I need to go there again.
Wow, I thought it would be an argument about crit accuracy. I really don’t see anything relevant there. Anyway, despite how much I fancy the changes to Ana she may be most suitable as not a main support. Will think about Sombra.
This is merely a part of the game, and remarkably it’s not much new even down to the single shield tank.
I disagree. The shields will be buffed and breaking them will be a factor. Dive is an option, Hammond and/or D.Va being combined with a shield tank, and even sustained damage incorporating McCree and/or Soldier may be get the upper edge in nullifying protection. Perhaps Widowmaker gets somewhat of a nerf. […Gulp, GOATS?]
I think this is nonsense but needless to say testing and iteration is part of the process. That’s where the developers get involved, whether they at all use the forum critically or just use it to engender warm feelings when Jeff Kaplan shares a few of his thoughts. Reddit is useless and social media is indeed for idiots. The Experimental Card or whatever that new mode will be called seems conducive.
What about the extra DPS being playable? How cranked up is the healing? What about the counters and shields being buffed? I don’t see snipers being as dominant as you do, and neither are they safe from adjustments. There was one extended point at which, before Doomfist, snipers were in a bad spot despite one shield and multiple supports. At least two long metas passed them by. Hell, Hanzo was considered a throw pick and Widowmaker wasn’t played either, having to be buffed.
Tbh easiest fix would be stop favoring the dps.
Why did so many tank & healer players quit the game or switch to dps? Their heroes were hit with the nerfbat harder than the explosion of Krakatau, usually several times in a row until they were troll picks.
Just make main tanks CC immune or reduce all damage and healing by 50%, so that people don’t explode if some dps farts in their general direction.
Maybe we could see something like this in the experimentation mode, but I wouldn’t get my hopes up.
Here’s someone who thinks that over the last 12-18 months the fundamental problem of Overwatch has been DPS farting in the direction of tank and support players and felling them summarily. Just make main tanks CC immune and reduce damage and healing by 50% across the board and player preferences will fit 2-2-2 like a glove. Stop favoring DPS. What can you even say? This is the easiest fix, tbh.
Apparently DPS queues run so long because tanks and supports have been switching to DPS! Bet the developers didn’t see this coming.