Wow… another one that wants to stretch. Zens ult can stop deaths not reverse them thus the math never changes vs. rez where someone has to die 2 times… so zen ult math is 6-0=6 deaths needed. Rez math is still 6+1=7 deaths needed.
Are numbers really this hard?
“Don’t use OWL as a Comparison… they are pre-selected players. Those Mercy are Mercy Mains as One Tricks, two tricks or flex… there a post I did a while back that listed all the Support players in OWL and yeah… Mercy one Tricks…”
Noone in OWL is a Mercy One-Trick.
“You cannot expect them to play anything else and be ‘Pro’ with them. If they’re playing something comfortable and on a hero that works well with the team, they will naturally win.”
Refer to all the support players who are currently playing Mercy and Zenyatta over their normal main.
“Part of that win rate is due to team work and the fact that, that player is a Mercy main.”
Yes there is teamwork in OWL, but that is disregarding the fact that both teams have coaches and have excellent teamwork.
“You cannot expect Ryujaehong to play anything else but Ana, so why expect the Mercy’s to play something else and jeopardise their win rate?”
And how much Ana has Ryu actually played in OWL? He is forced to play Zenyatta, because Zenyatta+Mercy is the best support duo.
“Also OWL… they consist of >1% of the >1% (The GM/T500) that make up the total community. Therefore we cannot use them as a basis for the ENTIRE community.”
We can however observe at the highest level of play, supports are forced to play Zenyatta and Mercy.
“Mercy is only strong when the team plays with her and allows her to do her job and if that player is good with her.”
Mercy is only strong when the player is good with her, agreed on that point.
Mercy needs a weakness, either in her healing or in her mobility, to open up areas in which other healers can be more viable.
A nerf to her base healing OR to Guardian Angel will do a hell of a lot for all the other healers in the game. At the same time, first pick still decides a lot of teamfights and matches, so rez still needs to be looked at as well again. As long as Mercy still has rez, she’ll be vital to undo that first pick that decides so many teamfights.
This one is true.
However you can’t say it is a 7v6.
GA and her healing is really not the problem.
Effectively, her healing is the worst of all 3 main healers. It’s consistent sure, but nothing which is unbalanced. It has weaknesses and strengthen, as it should be. Same with her DmgB.
GA has as well strengthen and weaknesses. It’s very good with Dive but with Death ball it’s very difficult to use effectively. It’s no problem.
The only problem is Valkyrie and E res. Valkyrie removes all of Mercy’s weaknesses. This is a unchangeable fact, which makes her already far more viable than most other supports, which have weaknesses even with their Ult. Add on top of that E res, which is also more unbalanceable.
Valkyrie and her E res is the problem, nothing else.
My view of the matter.
While I agree she needs weaknesses I do not agree with those you put forward, quite the opposite.
People really need to make a distinction between kills and players “on the pitch” so to say, otherwise it’s possible to claim the other team had over 40 players…
Maybe this will make them realize how bad is automated thread closing on flags?
The nerf will do nothing since Valkyrie is taking values from the base kit. She will be either better than everyone else or worse than everyone else. What she needs is a rework that would give her back a clear outline - an identity as a single target, short-range dedicated healer.
If you ask me, I think they were referring to the boost mechanic nerf, that affected Mercy (so she has been indirectly nerfed), but also Orisa and Ana. Not the best way to fix a problem which is limited to Hanzo’s dragon strike.
Let’s remember. First, that OWL video stated that Mercy was getting nerfed. Some days after, boost mechanic is nerfed and many people claim it as a nerf to Hanzo and Mercy. I think that was it.
Nerfing Mercy fixes nothing. Her current design makes her too easy to play and good for every situation, because she has no weaknesses. Valk destroys them all. She was a single target support, so she had to work very hard to solo heal her team. She had survivality reliant on her teammates. Valk allows her to fly out of range or behind a wall while doing her job effortless with zero skill. Also, E rez is too powerful for being her E ability and contradicts the entire character (immobile mobile support lol!).
Nerfs are out of question if you want to fix Mercy. She needs a rework or a revert. Choose one. E rez needs to go, and that ability can’t be removed, so the only place left to place it is her ult. After that, you can make all the changes you want, but that step is mandatory.
But according to your logic, we could start counting all turrets, teleports, drumbs, etcetera in the game as more kills, so in the end we could be talking about infinite kills to earn a victory. Also, tell us how can Mercy make huge kills in the game. She can’t, that’s why she has rez, because that’s the way she makes impact in the game. If having a character able to make you work a bit harder, I’m sorry, but things shouldn’t be given for free.
Some people (not me) might argue she needs ANOTHER nerf (and she has had around 8 direct nerfs and many indirect nerfs, she is the most nerfed character in Ow’s history by far), so she isn’t fine.
Nerfs have solved nothing but making hide and rez mandatory and bringing back the two worst Mercy’s designs ever to the game (valk as an ult and E rez’s mechanic).
Current Mercy’s design makes her too easy to play and removes all her weaknesses thanks to ez mode valk.
E rez is unbalanceable, contradicts Mercy as a mobile support and rewards bad game from everybody.
Current Mercy can’t be balanced because she is bad design.
Current Mercy NEEDS a rework or a revert, one of these two, but NEVER more stupid and pointless nerfs.
Yes, it’s unimpactful, but it removes all skill from Mercy and removes all her weaknesses. You can fly out of range or behind a wall and do your hard work effortless with zero skill. That makes her good for every situation, because she has no drawbacks, all of them are removed with her ez mode valk.
Nope, thanks. Never. At all. You are just suggesting to remove a half of Mercy’s focus, 2/3 her identity and 100% her signature in the game, leaving more than a half of her lore, sprays, potgs, poses and real statues in contradiction to the character, and leaving in the game only her ez mode that makes her good for every situation. That’s a nonsense. You must be jocking.
Tbh, somepeople suggested that long ago, and from time to time since then, but people play Mercy because they love the character or any other reasons, so that option always fail. Following that same logic, people who tell us to play other character if we don’t like her now fails too for the same reasons.
That’s not how mass rez works. That’s how the hide and rez exploit works. There is the difference. If you were playing mass rez properly, you would be with the team all the time, never hiding, maybe sometimes taking advantage of your beam’s range for your own security while doing your job, but that’s all. Then, you wouldn’t be caught by the enemy grav, so you could run and avoid the dragon strike and rez your team. That was how it worked.
Usually, when you used mass rez against enemy ults, that was because you knew how to take cover or just because your enemy didn’t hit nor focused you. In that last case, you were able to punish that bad player for not playing well, unlike now.
About current design, the problem is that valk makes Mercy too easy to play and good for every situation, and E rez is too powerful and contradicts Mercy as a mobile support . That makes her unbalanceable as she is, so a rework is needed. As rez can’t be removed because it’s too important for Mercy, the only place for it is her ult.
Finally, yes, mass rez could be more risky, and we are suggesting changes in that direction, like LoS, little cast time, etcetera. Blizz has created other things that could make mass rez harder too, like a natural counter for it in the form of a hamster.
We know the maths, but your logic is flawed. Let’s say you are fighting Torbjorn. Do you know how many highlights are from afk or dead Torbjorns while that turret kills everyone? So, to defeat Torbjorn, you need to kill 2 characters instead of just one, and he can replace his turret on cd, so the number of kills can be ridiculous at some point. And the same goes for Sym.
Agree with your first 4 words, but that weakness won’t come because of a nerf. Valk makes Mercy too easy and good for every situation, so more nerfs will solve nothing, because her design is flawed and simply bad. She needs a rework back to a point where she had weaknesses, like being single target (removed by valk) or having not guaranteed survivality for a long period of time (removed by valk). Also, E rez is terrible design (because of your own reasons for example, among many many others) and needs to go. It needs to be her ultimate again with some changes. Make it 100% engaging and allow more counterplay, and give her an E ability that fits with her (not rez anymore because immobility has no placement in a mobile character).
TLDR: Still waiting for Mercy to be fixed. Bring her a new iteration of mass rez, a new, better and healthier E ability and keep the rest of her kit as it is.
You are right.
We need to remove her.
Remove Mercy.
Well, you can try to tell that to the devs, but I’m afraid they will laugh at you. If you want to give real feedback, better try something more constructive and balance her with all the things that identify her as she should be.
Check up in the thread. Also, this is the megathread, so see ya in the next Mercy discussions that shows up.
Yep, this is the megathread, so the point here is to bring valid and constructive feedback about Mercy. “Remove Mercy” is not feedback and even less a constructive one. And when you write something, better try to explain it with facts and real logic, not just “I hate Mercy, so remove her”. I can confidently say that the chances of Blizz doing that are zero, so I’d try to think about something more realistic at least.
You can’t read.
Look up.
5k until next thread, this isn’t looking too good for Bliz. If I saw a game had 4 threads about one character’s state, I’d be pretty worried for that game lol.
Added… though I rarely have the battle.net client open anymore since I no longer play any of the Blizzard games, and I don’t see a future in which I would be excited to play one of their games again.
Nah, they put too much effort in moving whole forum to new place. Flags are worse than dislikes, at least disliked thread still could be read and replied to.
No need to be rude. If you want to link something, link it. If it’s real feedback, we’ll discuss it. If no, I’m afraid this conversation makes no sense, so let’s better put an end to it.
Just as there is no need to link stuff when you can just scroll up.
See? Tried to do that before you.