That’s because lots of people want to try out the new tanks in this mode. If that has settled I guarantee you that the queue times will be even higher, because this mode only so little tanks and supports want to play.
1 Like
If your goal was to theorize what queue times would look like with 1/3/2, it was a major success of an experiment. If your goal was to gauge the flow of 1/3/2 matches, you failed out of the gate. You would’ve had to include more than a few novelty tank buffs to balance the game around only having one. You would have to adjust every role.
Ultimately 1/3/2 would work best because it can be balanced and it fixes the queue time dilemma.
1 Like
All in all I like that developers took a more proactive approach to balancing, But the first experiment to many of people is a indication that devs are out of ideas to fix current unsatisfactory situation. So here are some very radical ideas:
- Make it 1-2-2, with 1 tank. You will effectively have +1 active lobby from the current number for dps players and tanks. Come on, 6 players is not a requirement to play OW.
- Priority queue: if you played rare role, next queue for you is in priority order, this is equivalent of filling where players chooses himself when and how to fill. Far more pleasant than prior experience with people holding lobbies hostage until someone fills or leaves.
- You need to address horrible and oppressive situation of some characters regardless of the composition schema.
I’m speaking of those type of characters: Mei, Reaper, Moira, Brigitte. In 1-2-3 the list extends with to Ashe. The primary issue with those is that they battle tanks or create their own space. Mei is another tank because tanks have to avoid her. She takes space from them. A DPS takes space from tanks getting near them. And long range characters are not a 100% shutdown, because Dva shuts them down and gets away pretty easy. At the same time sustain curse is still in OW. Fights are faster, yes, compared to GOATs. Still the best strategy is to fight over the point and maximize Mei value with her walls and multifreeze, that, let’s be honest, was introduced to counter goats but made another mutation of it, and thus Mai became a tank in disguise. As someone who plays Ball, she is the most irritating hero in the game that runs at you holding left click and you need to run away with your tail between your legs. Mei does not require skill to shut down tanks, which is Unfair with capital F. I am fed up with this philosophy of ‘Overwatch is a game about swapping heroes’. Do you seriously think that it is fun to swap heroes because on the other team there is a hero that makes you a ghost? And, moreover, that player on this hero literally needs to hold down one-two buttons to do so. This is ridiculous. I’d much rather swap my heroes cuz the map makes them strong]useful. E.g. Lijang has three maps where I play three different heroes stage to compliment the map. Against Mei as Ball there is NO COUNTERPLAY, you just die or run fro her. If you think this is normal, it’s absolutely your right, but this attitude kills your game. This is a part of a bigger issue with OW. You need to engrave on the back of your skull that WE WANT COUNTERPLAY, like in the beginning of the game. When matchups had depth to them, not rock-paper-scissors. Because many of them feel like that: Mei vs any tank without shield, Moira vs Dive DPS (apart from Doom) make them MOVE THE HELL AWAY, Brig vs Tracer (yes, she doesn’t exactly kill Tracer, but the way armor works makes Tracer shoot paper bullets). The only time where this doesn’t matter is when the skill discrepancy between players is immeasurable. But newsflash, matchmaking is not allowing this. The game feels like it does not rewarding skill at all, there are a lot of characters that do the work for the player which is not healthy for competitive and, as you might have seen, for professional pay as well. Another thing that looks like a true statement is that you believe that every hero should have their place under the sun in every level of play which is impossible! You will just make heroes that do not require skill OP, we witness just that when Moira has been taken over Ana and Zen. In addition, this attitude, which basically punishes playing skillful characters instead of easier to play character just kills competitive scene. Right now it is not as noticeable, but if you continue down this path, you’ll kill comp scene for the sake of casuals players who play game from even to event.
Make game endorse skill, this is the only way in my eyes to bring OW magic back. Counterplay, not counterpick.
Another MAJOR issue that hasn’t been addressed. If you look at old heroes than you’ll see they have CLEAR weakness. New or newly buffed lack that. Zen has dmg potential, but easy to dive and lack mobility. Ana has the most powerful cooldowns, but lack self-sustain and mobility, so she needs Lucio or a dedicated bodyguard. Meanwhile Brig and Moira do not need anyone like that and can aggressively push dps heroes out. Freaking Mei can freeze anyone who gets close to her which ,akes her crazy strong against tanks and close range heroes, at the same time without dropoff on icicles she can spam at long range as mini-Hanzo. Great sustain, shield at cooldown and invulnerability, that gives you chance for erasing mistakes in the fight. Again, no weaknesses.
Some crazy suggestions for your experimental cards:
-
If you dont want to remove moira dmg orb, make her 150 hp hero. With slender model and suitain it will be only fair. And, who knows, mb they will stop diving alone enemy backline in gold and below to kill enemy supports and dps.
-
Change Mei freeze mechanics. Remove multifreeze or, hell, why not, full freeze from primary fire, leave it only on her ult. Bring dmg dropoff bacck, so she has weakness. Current wall nerfs are not enough. Or remove the mechanic that she freezes faster with dmg boost. With nano her ult freezes instantly. We need another nerf.
-
Give Genji a smoke bomb that will conceal teammates and reveal enemies within smoke radius. This will enable him dive comp without shield. He is very weak compared to other heroes, even with support the amount of things that screw him over are overwhelming and it feels like you are doing yourself a disservice while playing this hero. I get your ’ OW is a game about switching heroes’, but i play a lot of them and all are more or less screwed by your approach to the game design when you endorse less skillfull characters. This smoke bomb will also fit into his whole ninja fantasy. And will make a connection to Hanzo, since he has somewhat similar tech. Alternatively, TUNE OP DPS THE HELL DOWN!
-
Give McCree a whip, which can either be used as a mean to get to high ground or stun enemy (make it a lasso or a whiplash, idc). This will make him more mobile and less divable, while fitting his cowboy fantasy way better than a flashbang
can a mod please close this thread? I feel this conversation is at a dead end.
If you think 2-2-2 makes the game boring, go spend some time in the arcade. A little Mystery Heroes should spice up your day. And if that’s too spicy then there’s 3v3 Elimination or 1v1 duels. Or make a public custom game that’s 6v6 no-tanks no-healers. “But it’s not Ranked!” you say? Well, that’s just something you’ll have to live with. Those of us who flex or focus on Tank or Support like having those roles, having ways we can contribute that don’t require us to have the mouse-twitch accuracy of a pro player. This is one of the few 1st-person games where situation sense and strategic/tactical response can matter as much as gunplay, and it’s one of the reasons that those of us who play Tank or Support are here in the first place.
I’ve advocated for this elsewhere since 2-2-2 was announced; it’s time I posted it here, if anyone’s still watching this thread.
Some of us are role-flex players, and would pick not just a character within a role but a role based on what map we land on, and on attack or defense or on which of the three sub-maps we were in for Control maps.
As an Experiment, please introduce a 4th role, “I’m Flexible”, and set the matchmaker for 1-1-1-3 or 1-2-1-2, where to queue for flex in comp you have to have all three roles ranked within a 500SR range in either the current season or previous (or have comparably-close MMR in QP). If DPS mains who are tank and support competent want shorter queue times, they can queue for flex. You’ll probably find a lot of Flex players in the lower ranks, and a decent number in the uppers.
I don’t really care about arcade… I played Overwatch for the comp only… I was a flex player before role q and it was fun tbh… I never had problem to climb… now it’s just a suffering this is why I stopped i’m not enjoying this game anymore ^^ I still don’t know why the devs just don’t add comp classic next to role q… half of the leavers would come back to OW…
edit: Valorant comes out soon… and doesn’t matter how I hate Rito… if ActiBlizzard gonna continue this “safe play” that game gonna take a huge portion of players from OW…
All in all I like that developers took a more proactive approach to balancing, But the first experiment to many of people is a indication that devs are out of ideas to fix current unsatisfactory situation. So here are some very radical ideas:
- Make it 1-2-2, with 1 tank. You will effectively have +1 active lobby from the current number for dps players and tanks. Come on, 6 players is not a requirement to play OW.
- Priority queue: if you played rare role, next queue for you is in priority order, this is equivalent of filling where players chooses himself when and how to fill. Far more pleasant than prior experience with people holding lobbies hostage until someone fills or leaves.
- You need to address horrible and oppressive situation of some characters regardless of the composition schema.
I’m speaking of those type of characters: Mei, Reaper, Moira, Brigitte. In 1-2-3 the list extends with to Ashe. The primary issue with those is that they battle tanks or create their own space. Mei is another tank because tanks have to avoid her. She takes space from them. A DPS takes space from tanks getting near them. And long range characters are not a 100% shutdown, because Dva shuts them down and gets away pretty easy. At the same time sustain curse is still in OW. Fights are faster, yes, compared to GOATs. Still the best strategy is to fight over the point and maximize Mei value with her walls and multifreeze, that, let’s be honest, was introduced to counter goats but made another mutation of it, and thus Mai became a tank in disguise. As someone who plays Ball, she is the most irritating hero in the game that runs at you holding left click and you need to run away with your tail between your legs. Mei does not require skill to shut down tanks, which is Unfair with capital F. I am fed up with this philosophy of ‘Overwatch is a game about swapping heroes’. Do you seriously think that it is fun to swap heroes because on the other team there is a hero that makes you a ghost? And, moreover, that player on this hero literally needs to hold down one-two buttons to do so. This is ridiculous. I’d much rather swap my heroes cuz the map makes them strong]useful. E.g. Lijang has three maps where I play three different heroes stage to compliment the map. Against Mei as Ball there is NO COUNTERPLAY , you just die or run fro her. If you think this is normal, it’s absolutely your right, but this attitude kills your game. This is a part of a bigger issue with OW. You need to engrave on the back of your skull that WE WANT COUNTERPLAY , like in the beginning of the game. When matchups had depth to them, not rock-paper-scissors. Because many of them feel like that: Mei vs any tank without shield, Moira vs Dive DPS (apart from Doom) make them MOVE THE HELL AWAY , Brig vs Tracer (yes, she doesn’t exactly kill Tracer, but the way armor works makes Tracer shoot paper bullets). The only time where this doesn’t matter is when the skill discrepancy between players is immeasurable. But newsflash, matchmaking is not allowing this. The game feels like it does not rewarding skill at all, there are a lot of characters that do the work for the player which is not healthy for competitive and, as you might have seen, for professional pay as well. Another thing that looks like a true statement is that you believe that every hero should have their place under the sun in every level of play which is impossible! You will just make heroes that do not require skill OP, we witness just that when Moira has been taken over Ana and Zen. In addition, this attitude, which basically punishes playing skillful characters instead of easier to play character just kills competitive scene. Right now it is not as noticeable, but if you continue down this path, you’ll kill comp scene for the sake of casuals players who play game from even to event.
Make game endorse skill, this is the only way in my eyes to bring OW magic back. Counterplay, not counterpick.
Another MAJOR issue that hasn’t been addressed. If you look at old heroes than you’ll see they have CLEAR weakness. New or newly buffed lack that. Zen has dmg potential, but easy to dive and lack mobility. Ana has the most powerful cooldowns, but lack self-sustain and mobility, so she needs Lucio or a dedicated bodyguard. Meanwhile Brig and Moira do not need anyone like that and can aggressively push dps heroes out. Freaking Mei can freeze anyone who gets close to her which ,akes her crazy strong against tanks and close range heroes, at the same time without dropoff on icicles she can spam at long range as mini-Hanzo. Great sustain, shield at cooldown and invulnerability, that gives you chance for erasing mistakes in the fight. Again, no weaknesses.
Some crazy suggestions for your experimental cards:
- If you dont want to remove moira dmg orb, make her 150 hp hero. With slender model and suitain it will be only fair. And, who knows, mb they will stop diving alone enemy backline in gold and below to kill enemy supports and dps.
- Change Mei freeze mechanics. Remove multifreeze or, hell, why not, full freeze from primary fire, leave it only on her ult. Bring dmg dropoff bacck, so she has weakness. Current wall nerfs are not enough. Or remove the mechanic that she freezes faster with dmg boost. With nano her ult freezes instantly. We need another nerf.
- Give Genji a smoke bomb that will conceal teammates and reveal enemies within smoke radius. This will enable him dive comp without shield. He is very weak compared to other heroes, even with support the amount of things that screw him over are overwhelming and it feels like you are doing yourself a disservice while playing this hero. I get your ’ OW is a game about switching heroes’, but i play a lot of them and all are more or less screwed by your approach to the game design when you endorse less skillfull characters. This smoke bomb will also fit into his whole ninja fantasy. And will make a connection to Hanzo, since he has somewhat similar tech. Alternatively, TUNE OP DPS THE HELL DOWN!
- Give McCree a whip, which can either be used as a mean to get to high ground or stun enemy (make it a lasso or a whiplash, idc). This will make him more mobile and less divable, while fitting his cowboy fantasy way better than a flashbang
- Fire the guy who thought that sombra needs a buff. NOBODY wants Sombra in this game getting buffed. It is hard enough play heroes like ball or winston, or dva, sombra makes it unbearable, come on. Revert that bullspit back.
What other games are you playing Hana?
adding more roles to the game is a great way to mess up queue times even further
EXACTLY
Pointless to play support in 132 – no one likes to hang out in the spawnroom. The second support get some sort of survivability DPS cry for a nerf bat. E.g. Brig and Moira.
That depends on the role. If there aren’t enough “Flexible” players, the matchmaker could fill the “Flexible” slots from each of the other queues that have surplus players to build toward 2-2-2. But I strongly expect that at least some people will move over from the more glutted queues into “Flexible” in the hopes of better queue times. And they’d get better queue times. Yes you’d still end up with a lot of matches played with a solo healer or solo tank, especially if almost all of them came from the DPS queue. But you’d also get folks who have been already queuing as non-DPS who’d like to swing between heroes across multiple roles in a single match because that’s how they feel most effective, and get frustrated when they land on a map in one role where they personally prefer another.
Ah yes, six month late to something that is now irrelevant. Nice
1 Like
A 6 month necro of a 4 month necro, to boot!
2 Likes
aww this post makes me sad, 1-3-2 would be so nice 
These 10 minute queue times
1 Like
It looks like you necromanced the thread
I just started learning Widow for the past 30 days. I understand now what you meant. Thank you.
Only took you 2 years to respond to him…better late than never 8 guess 
2
Y E A R S
L A T E R
2 Likes
Kinda ironic, because we’re all playing this experimental card permanently now, aren’t we?
Except, it’s called “Double Damage”.