This^ everyone should at least try to play a little devil’s advocate with their own argument.
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The complaints about not being able to beat DPS stacks come from my friends, who don’t actually use the forums, so I can understand why you think I haven’t read any pro-2-2-2 posts. But you are making a mistake by assuming I haven’t understood the opposition solely because I do not agree with them. That implies I am the problem, not the argument, which is totally counterproductive.
As for it being difficult to play as a healer in a DPS stack? Just… don’t play a healer? Again, DPS stacks aren’t ridiculously common on a day-to-day basis, but getting specifically a 5 DPS stack is even less common solely because it’s more specific. If you don’t want to be a support, don’t play the support, and either other players will change role or you can get a better stab at it the next game. You shouldn’t get to force a team composition because you find it annoying…
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You’re arguing with the wrong people. All those things are assumptions made by players. Players didn’t make the change.
2-2-2 actually allows more unique heroes since they don’t have to worry about extreme in-role synergies as much. Sigma probably wouldn’t have worked with the stats he has now if 2-2-2 didn’t exist.
That logic doesn’t make sense.
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And can’t change between roles because of the DPS lock, which is what I’m talking about when I said that the lock destroys flexability and limits what tactics you can change on the fly.
Here is one you missed:
- DPS play tends to be more independent from the team than most support or tank play. In all the scenarios where you have 3 DPS or more on your team the game is less enjoyable and more stressful for the majority of people who find themselves as that lone tank or lone support because they have so much more pressure put on them and often feel spread out too thin making them burn out quicker.
^
Can you shoot down this argument please?
I want to believe!
I didn’t really reduce anyone’s argument. I addressed the concept of the post rather than attempting to summarize it and address that.
You can’t debunk every pro 222 argument because there are objective benefits to the system. So I found the premise worthy of commentary and commented, opting not address the rest of the post.
Mostly because of the length.
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only said flexibility and tactics in regards to the numbers of each role. It does nothing to stop your team from switching from dive to bunker to deathball to beyblade, etc.
It limits both but the door is still open to any combination of 2-2-2 if a team decides to change. That’s plenty flexible enough…
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subjective points
“easier to balance”
easier to balance? i cant find the trouble in it. but, I guess if you think every role has only 2 objectives so that way you only need 2 each. then and 3 different main roles are all the game has then, well, thats kind of subjective view. its a balanced reply but id rather find a different way that takes a little out of each. my suggest here not paid is 1-1-1. leaving the last to take whats left over. that way its not unbalanced.
“2-2-2 relives pressure of solo roleing”
subjective. 6-0-0 couild relieve pressure from SOLE roleing as well.
“balanced team comps”
subjective, the compisition should be balanced towards what the other team has. i played basket ball and sometimes youd have more of one class and sometimes more of another. depending on the other teams composition. forcing a composition does not balance any game aspect.
downsides list overweighs the any upsides you could dream up.
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Umm are you feeling okay? You tried to strawman VenusArmani’s point with your “friends” arguments. Your friends argument isn’t the common argument, the common argument is the opposite. So it’s a very bad point.
For people like you who are okay with flat out losing a game on the select screen quickplay classic exists. That’s the end of the argument, want the freedom to play comps that aren’t balanced then play quickplay classic.
You cannot argue for ultimate freedom of choice and then be mad when people choose to play 2-2-2 over quickplay classic. We are making our choice and you cannot choose for us. Play with people who want to play the way that you want to.
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2-2-2 actually allows more unique heroes since they don’t have to worry about extreme in-role synergies as much. Sigma probably wouldn’t have worked with the stats he has now if 2-2-2 didn’t exist.
No it doesn’t. Each hero’s abilities now have to work within the confines of the composition, so characters that don’t rely on other characters, such as Junkrat and Widowmaker, will now have to be altered so that the other DPS isn’t doing the job of a DPS all by themself, which is to deal out damage and support the other players.
Also, Sigma’s stats work perfectly fine without a 2-2-2 composition, what are you on about?
That logic doesn’t make sense.
The statement you decided to cherry-pick is very self-explanatory, but yes, the logic does make sense. With the 2-2-2 lock, both DPS players are there to support the tanks and protect the healers, while the tanks are there to draw fire from the other players and the healers are there, surprise surprise, to heal.
With that general function in mind, new characters will eventually start being built around that simple function once they run out of ideas, and they wouldn’t take issue with it because the composition, which is now their new mechanism for balancing the game, would still work.
Honestly, since the devs intended it to be this way, had they simply launched the game as 2-2-2, this wouldn’t even be an issue. Hell no limits as the default on launch was terrible, but the game was new enough, and everyone subpar enough, that no one cared. Its been three years friend, the game needs structure. It needed it at launch, and its awful it took this long to get it. The real crime here is: It went unaddressed for so long, they might as well have just made this the standard in a brand new game.
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your idea of balance is a subjective point of view.
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There are like 2 “good” sides, one is that you won’t get the dreaded 5dps comps, and two is that you can’t replace Reaper in double shield meta with Roadhog…
There are very few pros to 2-2-2.
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It reduces the number of combinations that can be made, which makes it less complex and thus easier to balance. It is objectively an upside to 222.
The presence of an alternative solution in no way delegitimizes any given solution. If you are thirsty, and I have lemon or cucumber water, I can offer you both. Lemon water does not stop being a legitimate way to quench your thirst because you drank cucumber.
Solo roleplay places a lot of pressure on the person on that role to perform with less mistakes able to be made by them than if there were others around.
This is often to the detriment of the team, as confirmed by developers.
Role Q objectively eliminates this because there will never be a solo role in a complete team again.
It isn’t. 222 is the most balanced by roles because it has an equal amount of all roles.
Which side outweighs the other will depend on the person.
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Your idea of balance is a subjective point of view.
Do you see how that works? Everyone has a different opinion on what is a balanced composition. So placing people who feel like 2-2-2 is the most balanced experience in the game(including the devs) with people who think that 5 DPS 1 Support is a balanced comp is nonsensical.
The ideological differences caused a lot of arguments and they would never end. So the best thing to do is to flat out separate those players. Which is what the devs did. Now everyone has the choice to play the game the way that they think is proper. I’m not mad at the players who want ultimate freedom in qp classic. So why is the other side salty when many of us want to play in 2-2-2?
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Funny, considering Junkrat or Widowmaker worked fine in 2-2-2 comps since the release of the game.
Yeah, except the characters were always intended to do this. Nothing changed.
Three strong barriers would have probably been meta until they released another barrier tank - which would result in four strong barriers becoming the meta. Each additional barrier synergizes with the other barriers since it reduces down time and allows a wider field of protection. Same goes for things like AOE healers (see GOATS).
Umm are you feeling okay? You tried to strawman VenusArmani’s point with your “friends” arguments.
That’s not what the term “strawman” means. To “strawman” is to argue against something that the other person didn’t even suggest, and he suggested that me addressing said complaint was a moot point because nobody was making it, so I explained why I made the point and then focussed on what he actually said.
Your friends argument isn’t the common argument, the common argument is the opposite. So it’s a very bad point.
The players who talk on the forums are inevitably in the minority when compared to the rest of the playerbase, so just because it’s discussed here doesn’t mean the majority of players think it.
For people like you who are okay with flat out losing a game on the select screen quickplay classic exists. That’s the end of the argument, want the freedom to play comps that aren’t balanced then play quickplay classic.
I also addressed this in my post, which you didn’t read, but I suppose I’ll address it hear as well. We’ve gotten no confirmation from Blizzard that quick play classic is staying in the arcade, and nothing that’s ever been in the arcade has stayed there permanently. It probably will, but “probably” isn’t good enough.
You cannot argue for ultimate freedom of choice and then be mad when people choose to play 2-2-2 over quickplay classic. We are making our choice and you cannot choose for us.
I can, because “your choice” is the one being forced on the rest of us. Now, regular quick play, which is considered the “main” quick play, by most, has the 2-2-2 lock. You’re the one who argued for change until it was forced on everyone here, not me. And the community overall appears to be in uproar about the 2-2-2 lock now that the casuals have noticed it, so put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Im so happy 2-2-2 is a thing now. Now the DPS hogs are getting what was coming to them.