this has got to be a joke, if there is 150 tank players and 500 dps players, there are going to be 200 dps players who are going to be waiting a long time to get into a game
most fun period of the game, i miss goats. Then brig got nerfed to a more reasonable state before the meta got stale because blizzard decided to scam their players with their OW2 and PVE
if you have 9 people playing the game and you’re missing a tank you actually have to wait for that one tank to get online to play that game
if you have 9000 people playing and the queue you’re in is missing a tank one tank player could already be queuing one tank player could be getting on one tank player could be finishing their game and queuing for a new game and if there are 9000 people playing more people are likely to get online in general and some of those could be tanks so logically it’s shorter
said no one ever
9000 players waiting for the one tank player is a huge bottleneck, thank god for 5v5 for making the role unfun as possible
so you recognise the tank queue is the bottle neck, so you want more tank players, how do you make more people play tank? By making it fun
How to make it fun:
Not put all the pressure on the solo tank player
buffing it until its the most powerful role in the game
with 5v5, you could make it the most powerful in the game, but then you increase more and more pressure on the solo tank player, which many people just cant handle so there will always be a huge deficit in tank players to any other role
only dps players would be complaining, support was fun as i could play baptiste and we would have matches that were close and not stomp/be stomped
This argument for the 5v5 side that ‘You lost automatically if you got two off tanks’? It just isn’t right.
I played DVA a lot in OW1, and I got a ‘meta’ partner maybe 45 percent of the time. Still worked out fine a lot of the time so long as you had teamwork. I won games with Hog, Rein, Sigma
The entire reason double shield comps got out of hand were the high-sustain supports with abilities such as lamp. That IS a balance issue.
sigma was pretty broken for a 6v6 tank, so much bloated abilities that would work in a 5v5 setting but not 6v6
i said 9000 people playing not waiting don’t put words in my mouth
it has ALWAYS been like that since the day they introduced RQ
i don’t want more tank players the ratio that we have is correct
i actually remember having chest pains playing mercy against brig before that i didn’t even know what that felt like
i first started coming to the forum bc it was such a horrible experience that i wanted to see some changes
but it was not 30 minute queue time for dps in the beginning, we are just repeating history at this point as we approach the famed 30 minute queue
probably the stupidest thing i have read so far in this thread
then go play brig, no one is forcing you to play the afk support
9000 players playing, one tank gets off and the queue times for the other roles are more effected by this than a dps leaving or support leaving
nah it got like that bc they abandoned the game we both know that
attack the argument not the person
eh 6y/o story
but it’s better than having 9 players and one player leaving right?
in that case you have to wait for a tank and one w/e role that other person had
So Firstly prefacing this with:
6v6 is never coming back. And it sucks because I do believe 6v6 is better.
The main “arguments” against 6v6 I see are as follows:
Let’s start with the easy one: double barrier never ever effected 90% of forum users and 70% of the player base so why are cry about it?
When it WAS good nobody below masters knew how to consistently counter the other team and properly play the comp.
Secondly, double barrier died as “meta” in 2020 for the high ranks after orisa and sigma received their final nerfs. After this man it really pained me to see people complain about “shooting shields” because sorry that tanks have damage blocking abilities?!?
Next is double off tank (also synergies since they are pretty much the same complaint)
So what? This literally still happens with support and dps but is normalized for some reason.
Having no burst healing like Moira, Bap, kiriko, Ana, or Illari
Is really really frustrating. And just as much if you have burst healing that doesn’t synergize with your tank choice like Orisa/Ana or Bap/Winston
Everyone expects the tank to make the swap…why???
The only argument that works now is that tank ults are the worst ultimates in the game now compared to support but tank also is so counterswappy now (even if the devs think it’s overrated sorry it’s how you designed your game) that they shouldn’t be limited by their support’s choices.
Yea sure double off tank sucked but it was only really bad if it was dva zarya and this problem literally exists in other roles still too so there’s really no right to complain about this and not a lack of hitscan/ranged dps or double main support/low healing comps
This actually started long before the content drought and was more so do to the tank players not liking how tanks were balanced around their meta duos. complaining quite a bit at how weak they felt individually, and to reliant on their tank duo to just be base line functional.
At least that was the forum spam of the era.
And outside of like the community fever dream that was the october patch. it more or less stayed that way for quite a while.
It is the one proper, objective argument, though.
Everything else is just “I like it more”, which is pointless to argue about, or “double shield hurrdurr”, which imo is just plain stupid. Honestly I think it’s good if that would be the only answer because then we’d at least be talking about the only actually hard to fix issue 6v6 had. I’m pretty firmly on the side of 6v6 these days, but if there’s anything to talk about it should be queue times.
I know Samito said queue times at one point in October 2020 were “solved” and many people seem to bring it up since then, but when I skimmed through old forum threads from that time it was the same old thing, everyone complaining about dps queues, so I’m not sure there ever was a point in time where it wasn’t an issue. We can talk about how it might look if garbage tanks like Orisa weren’t a thing and we had more tanks that DPS players would enjoy, but we don’t have any “historical facts” to prove it.
Double Shield was a problem with role-queue/2-2-2 not 6v6***
If 5v5 forced 2 tanks and got rid of a healer or dps spot instead, double shield would still be an issue.
There is no debate 5v5 is terrible and we all know it except Blizzard. Role queue is garbage, open queue is superior and those who don’t like it need to learn to be more flexible and not main Mercy or Roadhog and wonder why they’re losing.
I can envisage some nightmare tank combos with the OW2 tanks. I wouldn’t want to go against Orisa+Sigma even without the 2nd shield. Both are near unkillable often. I wouldn’t want to face rein+sigma shields - 2k of shield health! Ram and Rein or Sigma. No thanks.
If there is a 2nd tank they should go 2-3-2 as it would need more damage. But that would introduce its own problems.
And let’s face it, this balance team would have no chance of balancing all the tank combos to make the game fun. They couldn’t do it with 7 tanks to choose from in OW1 so how can they do it with more tanks in OW2?
^^
Exactly. It wasn’t even necessarily the shields. It was the sustain abilities behind the shields. Grasp, Fortify, Lamp, high aoe healing, etc.
Fortify needed to be nerfed. Sigma needed to be reworked as he had way too much in his kit. Bap Lamp needed to either be removed and replaced with another ability or the function of it needed to be changed completely. Brig needed a rework all together.
But was any of this ever actually done? No. So what was dominant for an extremely long time? Double shield. And then the terribly designed Supports (primarily Bap/Brig) allowed other awful comps as well.
“But we still got balance patches?!”
Yeah that did nothing to address the fundamental issues of heroes/problematic abilities. And this happened time and time and time again. When people were telling them exactly what the issues were.
With the Tanks primarily, how Sigma was allowed to exist as he did for the entire time he was out in OW1 was a disgrace. Isn’t it funny how for OW2 he barely had to receive any changes at all for him to fit as a solo Tank? In fact his shield regeneration was nerfed going into OW2 
. And Sigma has always been really strong on the maps he’s good on and even decent/good overall since OW2 began. So how the hell was he allowed to exist as he did in OW1? It was either because they were incompetent. Or they just didn’t care. Or they purposefully left him like that and knew he was a problem.
Because I have actually taken the time to think about it and not just reminisce about 6v6 with rose tinted glasses pretending everything was “ok”.
Think about it. Think of ALL things (not just one) and take the current game/number of heroes and put 6v6. Everything would be worse except “Oh, our Tank has a buddy now! he/she is not alone! yaaay” . Thats pretty much it.
It has an analogue in 5v5, the constant tank counterswapping we’ve been seeing. Since there’s no second tank anymore, every tank is weak against some other tank, leading to a rock-paper-scissors match. Before you’d have two tanks, but they might both be “off” tanks. Now you have only one that has to swap constantly.
Queue time was only a problem in 6v6 once the devs abandoned the game cus Bobby wouldn’t afford a budget for OW1 while OW2 was being developed. Any game that’s left to die for 3 years will have low player counts in some form or another. Excess CC meant Tanks had the least fun. We already dealt with CC and shield spam -it wasn’t even difficult it just required an active dev team to do it thats all.
DPS queue times are absolutely in the gutter in 5v5 too. Tank is often sub 1 minute, while DPS can be 5-10min for metal ranks and up to 30+min for high ranks. Heck even when I play QP I often wait 5 minutes for DPS queue, while tank queue is instant. The main thing that has actually helped queue times a bit, isn’t 5v5. It’s just influx of new players.
that’s just straight up wrong, 5v5 has more problems and only feels better because it’s something new and fresh, that’s it
The simple fact is, their never going to admit they screwed up unless Tank player numbers continue to bleed off.
Which I expect to happen. This patch isn’t going to be the magic bullet to shut people up the devs seem to want, I think it’ll just rotate the ‘which tanks are optimal’ wheel slightly to the other side in higher ranks and in metal ranks certain tanks that already run the table will be playing dead by daylight with the supports and some of the dps their facing.
Translation: Almost nobody will be ‘happy’ like they claim to want. The tanks that had their experience dinged in high ranks will be pissy, the metal ranked supports in particular who have to play survival horror afterwards won’t be happy.
I’m willing to admit if I’m wrong about all this, but it just seems like they’d rather go scorched earth response than ever consider they might’ve been wrong about this format change being ‘more fun’