D.va 🐰 (Let’s Make All Tanks Viable!)

[AnnaBanana-11409]

@Mädŀąď-1913

A new parameter needs to be added. Additional plus damage to barriers that would help Orisa Sigma and D.va.

Interesting idea! Since Orisa and Sigma are often at the frontline, I can see that they may benefit from a damage buff to shields. However, since D.va is more of a backline fighter, I believe such a buff might not be as useful on her!

@Dace-21550

Another change I’d like to see concerns mini-D.Va:

Mini-D.Va invulnerability the instant the Meka is summoned. You’re vulnerable the entire time you’re mini-d.va, introducing a self stunlock to get out of this phase is unnecessary.

This is compounded by the fact that summoning the meka also leaves the meka stunlocked too, and in combat might instantly de-meka the D.Va anyway because of damage. I’d be hesitant to suggest making the meka invulnerable too (might be worth experimenting on) but I’d be happy to see a shield on it or … something.

Also: D.Va should not lose her meka summon if she is stunned getting into her meka. At least if she is only mini-D.Va because she ulted. Being de-meka’d just because you got stunned as part of your ult is a unique handicap and coupled with her increased vulnerability and stunlock to escape this phase is too much.

I thought about making changes to Baby D.va as well, but in the end I decided to forgo them, because I didn’t think I was well-informed enough to suggest them.

Invulnerability to stuns while reboarding your mech sounds like an interesting idea! Would you suggest making her invulnerable during the entire reboarding animation? Or just while the mech is being summoned? I’d love to hear your thoughts!

@Kuzie-11442

I actually like the move speed reduction and would prefer to go another way with her. Instead of making it easier for her to chase down opponents on foot, make it harder for the opponent to force her away. I would like to see her get a steadfast passive so that a single Lucio boop or Brigitte whip shot doesn’t put her entirely out of her own effective combat range. She can’t barrier dance these abilities like Winston, and doesn’t have the range of Hammond, so being I would like to see her have the ability to plant herself down and hold her ground, and give her a very bunny rabbit playstyle of hop to point, hold the point, hop to next point.

In order to facilitate such a playstyle she will probably also need more defense and damage so that she can be a threat without instantly exploding like she does right now.

Finally, I would like to see baby D.Va get an E ability: Recall - D.Va begins an uninterruptible channel which roots herself, becomes invulnerable, and unable to contest objectives. Upon completing the channel she returns to the respawn screen.

Interesting ideas! I do believe she had some kind of Steadfast-like passive while firing. Does she still have this? I’m not quite sure…

Your E ability for Baby D.va sounds interesting. Is this to prevent enemy teams from stalling her indefinitely?

@Yin-1797

She’s a Tank, falls into the Tank role and does the same job as other Tanks do. Operationally, it may be different but truth she’s a Tank and that’s it. The Brusier arche-type is more in line with what’s seen with the 250 HP heroes, not with any of the tanks.

This is actually the goal of my changes! Yes, I agree, she is indeed a Tank, but I would not want her to tank in the same way Reinhardt or Sigma do. Rather, I’d like to make her a Tank that makes space through threatening enemies, similar to the Old Roadhog. She forces them to move, or direct their attention to her, and thus creates space that way. This is why we have the seemingly over-the-top buffs to her fighting power – she needs to be able to duke it out in the enemy’s backline, or else she will simply melt under all that pressure.

The booster nerf, while you may see it as unnecessary, I see as a major trade-off. I am currently moving her away from the “hit-and-run” playstyle that has been associated with her. If she could stay in the backline longer, she would be able to do her job as a disruptor more effectively.

In other words, rather than being a threat to look out for now and again, now she’s a persistent hazard that forces enemies to focus her down. She needs the tools to fight back, otherwise she would simply explode.

But that is just my opinion! What playstyle would you prefer for D.va? And what changes (if any) would you suggest for her? I know you say D.va is okay already, so you may not want her to receive any changes at all. What do you think?

@Watsyurdeal-1478

Personally, I’d prefer these changes

• Booster cooldown is 3 seconds
• While boosting you cannot use other abilities

Then look at ways to make DM more rewarding for good timing. Just my opinion

Very interesting! Yes, I know plenty of players would prefer higher mobility, sometimes at the cost of offensive options. I think this might work very well for a hit-and-run playstyle, which is what she had for a while!

As for the DM, I tried doing that with the 2-second cooldown, so D.va players will need to predict and play smart. What kind of reward would you suggest for a well-timed DM?

[Watsyurdeal-1478]

@AnnaBanana-11409

As for the DM, I tried doing that with the 2-second cooldown, so D.va players will need to predict and play smart. What kind of reward would you suggest for a well-timed DM?

The idea is to punish her for using DM at the wrong time, like say you use it but don’t eat anything or don’t block any damage, then you suffer a longer cooldown between uses. But also, having it so you’re not just holding DM down and only using it when necessary would be nice as well.

I wanna reward DvA for using DM optimally, but not quite how to explain it or even how far I’d go.

So for now, let’s say…you block damage successfully when you use it, you get a 1 second cooldown, if not, 2 seconds. You could even nerf her resource meter a bit so she can only block a certain amount before needing it to fully refill, like, almost an overheat of sorts.

[Kuzie-11442]

@AnnaBanana-11409

Interesting ideas! I do believe she had some kind of Steadfast-like passive while firing. Does she still have this? I’m not quite sure…

Your E ability for Baby D.va sounds interesting. Is this to prevent enemy teams from stalling her indefinitely?

Prior to the March 19th 2019 D.Va had 30% knock back resistance when shooting, and knockback immunity while flying. Orisa had 30% while shooting, and Rein had 30% while shielding. This was because self-slows also affected the momentum gained from knock backs. Although a bug, it fit thematically with tanks and felt good. When the patch came through, Orisa got a move speed while firing buff, Reinhardt eventually got a full fledged steadfast passive which is active all the time instead of only while shielding, and D.Va got nothing. You can see how much of a difference this makes in the clip below.

https://gfycat.com/reliableslushycrayfish-overwatch-pharah-lucio-patch

The Recall ability I suggested was a way to prevent D.Va from getting overly staggered without making it something D.Va could abuse to stall out games or anything like that. Essentially the channel time is like an additional respawn timer penalty for using it since once you activate it you are essentially dead and out of the fight, but need to wait your respawn + channel time. Recall is a much nicer sounding ability than a suicide ability.

[Alyenor-21688]

@Yin-1797

This is hilariously inaccurate. Winston, Sigma are incapable of criticl hits

You think I’m that stupid ?

Heroes that can’t crit don’t get bonus crit damage in the simulation.

@Yin-1797

D.va’s tiny critical hit box

@Yin-1797

Ultimately, the biggest issue is that this assume that’s there’s a 50% chance to critically hit, which is impossible even for the top-end players in the game. Most players average less than 15%, many of them being snipers.

Against D.Va ? It’s actually pretty easy.
Even then, the lesser the headshots, the lesser the difference, 100/400 and 400/200 actually have the same mitigation ability on bodyshots, on average. Only for shotguns is the difference big. But the former feeds less ult charge, and the removal of the critbox removes a weight on D.Va, poke damage won’t just delete chunks of her healthpool.

[AnnaBanana-11409]

@Watsyurdeal-1478

The idea is to punish her for using DM at the wrong time, like say you use it but don’t eat anything or don’t block any damage, then you suffer a longer cooldown between uses. But also, having it so you’re not just holding DM down and only using it when necessary would be nice as well.

I wanna reward DvA for using DM optimally, but not quite how to explain it or even how far I’d go.

So for now, let’s say…you block damage successfully when you use it, you get a 1 second cooldown, if not, 2 seconds. You could even nerf her resource meter a bit so she can only block a certain amount before needing it to fully refill, like, almost an overheat of sorts.

Interesting idea! For me personally though, I would prefer a more consistent experience with DM, namely in the cooldown. For me, it would feel horrible if I had to keep track of how much damage I’m eating, ON TOP of the resource meter. But I do like the idea!

@Kuzie-11442

The Recall ability I suggested was a way to prevent D.Va from getting overly staggered without making it something D.Va could abuse to stall out games or anything like that. Essentially the channel time is like an additional respawn timer penalty for using it since once you activate it you are essentially dead and out of the fight, but need to wait your respawn + channel time. Recall is a much nicer sounding ability than a suicide ability.

That sounds nice! And you’re right, it does sound better than a Suicide Button, lol.

How long would you see the channel time being? Would there be some sort of punishment for being killed while channeling? I’d love to hear more about it!

[MaestrPotato-1464]

@COMBAT-11646

OWL

i like owl in real life but my brain makes me hate this word every time it appear

[TheJohnSmith-1103]

I want no cooldown with just a resource instead of both for some reason.

[킹누누-3740]

Am I the only one that has trouble with DVA? She is crazy good at shutting me down.

[FV55-2424]

Ok that was too much lmao

[Dace-21550]

@AnnaBanana-11409

Invulnerability to stuns while reboarding your mech sounds like an interesting idea! Would you suggest making her invulnerable during the entire reboarding animation? Or just while the mech is being summoned?

The entire animation - from the moment the player presses Q for Call Meka. Immune to CC and invulnerable to damage for the mini D.Va. I’m unsure if I think the meka should also be afforded some (or any) protection but I think that is also worth trying.

[Kuzie-11442]

@AnnaBanana-11409

That sounds nice! And you’re right, it does sound better than a Suicide Button, lol.

How long would you see the channel time being? Would there be some sort of punishment for being killed while channeling? I’d love to hear more about it!

I was imagining the channel being in the ballpark of a few seconds. Using the ability is supposed to be somewhat of a punishment to D.Va using it and is essentially a compromise where you are conceding a longer respawn time, but limits how much longer that respawn time can be.

I had originally thought D.Va should be invincible during this cast to force the full duration and make it uninterruptible. I don’t see any issue with allowing the enemy team to still do damage as long as they can’t affect the channel of the ability, at which point the enemy team would gain their 150 ult charge and send D.Va straight to spawn.

[Tani-11647]

@AnnaBanana-11409

• Maximum damage per pellet decreased from 2 to 1.8.
• Spread angle reduced from 4.15 degrees to 3.55 degrees.

This doesn’t really buff anything she’s already strong at, all while weakening an already prominent weakness. The more accurate you make her, in balance, the worst she will perform against tanks and shields.

If anything, wouldn’t it make more sense to go slightly in the other direction, increasing her maximum damage output but reducing how much of that can readily be employed against a single target, especially a thin one? Her current 146 DPS isn’t much when you consider the range it requires to make full use of it. Against an Ana or similarly thin target, every meter or so cuts about a third of your damage from the meter of range prior (100%-> 67%->44%->30%->20%->13%->etc.).

Given how vulnerable she is to heroes like Orisa and Hog, oughtn’t we to keep her damage in her niche about the same, but buff it everywhere else (rather than keeping her niche the same and nerfing it everywhere else)?

Heck, increasing the minimum damage from .6 to 1, in line with all other hitscans’ max falloff, would be pretty reasonable so long as the accuracy isn’t overly increased.

[Tani-11647]

@AnnaBanana-11409

• Maximum uptime increased to 4 seconds.
• Maximum recharge time increased to 8 seconds.

This seems excessive, especially given that it currently takes 7 seconds total just to recharge 2 seconds of duration.

@AnnaBanana-11409

• Cooldown increased to 2 seconds (up from 1.5)

I’d honestly rather have increased fluidity than be able to shut down nearly an entire Tac-Visor. Even three seconds seems nearly excessive, as does the current minimum usage time of .5 seconds and the current .75-second delay to resource recovery.

@AnnaBanana-11409

• Cooldown increased to 5 seconds (up from 4)
• Emmy’s notes: I know, I know. No one likes to see this. But with increased defenses AND a more effective Fusion Cannon, D.va should be able to hold her own in the backline for a longer time.

You haven’t actually provided that at all. Moreover, the two are mutually exclusive. So long as you’re using the DM, you’re at best buying time for Boosters to come back up and wasting valuable resource to do so. Your buffs, meanwhile, aren’t nearly significant enough for the increased Booster CD to be increase viable risk. Either it newly becomes suicide to go in, or you killed a lone target and time was of no concern anyways.

[Tani-11647]

@Yin-1797

You cannot have this without drastically tuning down the damage output because D.va has infinite ammo with no reload time.

With her TTD so low, that’s hardly an issue. She could have a time between reloads barely better than Hammond’s and it would change nothing about her optimal play.

[AnnaBanana-11409]

@AnnaBanana-11409

@AnnaBanana-11409

• Maximum damage per pellet decreased from 2 to 1.8.

• Spread angle reduced from 4.15 degrees to 3.55 degrees.

This doesn’t really buff anything she’s already strong at, all while weakening an already prominent weakness. The more accurate you make her, in balance, the worst she will perform against tanks and shields.

If anything, wouldn’t it make more sense to go slightly in the other direction, increasing her maximum damage output but reducing how much of that can readily be employed against a single target, especially a thin one?

Thanks for your response! For me personally, I envisioned her being in the backline more (so she’d face off more often against thin targets), hence the buff to accuracy, rather than damage. This way, she would be able to engage squishies from farther away.

I do still see her facing off against tanks in the frontline too, though, so your ideas make sense. I might be willing to edit her damage output on that fact alone. Just curious though, how would a more accurate weapon be less effective against tanks? If anything, wouldn’t you be able to land more of your shots from a farther range?

@Tani-11647

I’d honestly rather have increased fluidity than be able to shut down nearly an entire Tac-Visor. Even three seconds seems nearly excessive, as does the current minimum usage time of .5 seconds and the current .75-second delay to resource recovery.

I can actually totally see where this is coming from. I think I will make another option for DM. It will feature more fluidity, and greater uptime. This should allow you to feather the ability, but also block a whole ultimate if you need to.

But in return, resource regeneration will be slower. What do you think?

[DarkVoid-21853]

@AnnaBanana-11409

• Defense Matrix (Option 1)
• Maximum uptime increased to 4 seconds.
• Maximum recharge time increased to 8 seconds.
• Cooldown increased to 2 seconds (up from 1.5)
• Emmy’s notes: The increased uptime for Defense Matrix should allow D.va to provide more consistent cover for herself and her allies. However, the increased cooldown should prevent players from “feathering” the ability.
• Defense Matrix (Option 2)
• Maximum uptime increased to 3 seconds.
• Cooldown reduced to 0.5 seconds.
• Maximum recharge time increased to 9 seconds.
• Emmy’s notes: This version of Defense Matrix features much more flexibility – you can feather it to prolong it, or hold it up to block a big wave of damage (such as an ultimate). However, resource management is now more crucial than ever, as it will take longer to refill.

Or

• Defense Matrix (Option 3)
• Maximum uptime increased to 6 seconds.
• Maximum recharge time increased to 12 seconds
• Cooldown increased to 2.5 seconds.
• Matrix Max Length increased to 15m*
• Void’s Notes; Defense matrix is a very utility based ability, with the chance to have a major role in the game. This change would allow for more uptime usage in one go rather than spaming the ability every now and then.

Or

• Defense Matrix (Option 4 the nuclear option)
• Maximum uptime increased to 10 seconds.
• Maximum recharge time changed to 6 seconds.
• Cooldown decreased to 1 seconds.
• Matrix Max Length increased to 25m*
• Void’s Notes; this is a completely overpowered change and will most likely be looked at as broken, just the way i like it uwu

[Tani-11647]

@AnnaBanana-11409

This should allow you to feather the ability, but also block a whole ultimate if you need to.

I just don’t think that’s necessary. It’s rare that a barrier can do that, and the space they protect is incredibly small compared to a DM. I don’t want my team to expect me to just stand there and eat an entire Tac Visor rather than having them find natural cover (as they’d do for pretty much any other tank). I want to guard for long enough for them to find that cover as I position myself to bully out his angles where possible.

I don’t want to eat a full Barrage. I want to shove Pharah’s rockets back into her. We have Boosters. We have a short range weapon. We should feel inherently aggressive, not like a DM-bot.

Personally, the only DM buffs I want are these:

• Range increased to 11 or 12 meters, with better visual indicators of its how far out its going and absorbing damage for D.Va herself.
  • Why so faint an increase? Because 10 meters, in the context of latency, isn’t functionally 10 meters, and an oddly high number of shots escape its trapezoid of gluttony near its outer edge.
• DM width increased slightly at its origin (and thereby across the whole trapezoidal prism, though less noticeably), to better absorb flanking shots.
• Minimum usage time removed.
• If you want to reduce the ability to “feather” thereafter, increase the delay before DM resource recovery starts from .75 seconds to 1 second and increase the charge rate from 1 second of duration per 3.125 seconds of charge to 1 second of duration per 3 seconds of charge.

That’s it. That’s all I want from DM. In all other regards, I’d rather see buffs go to Boosters (perhaps putting them on an energy system in the exact same way and allowing for snapshotted momentum for better turning-while-moving) and Fusion Cannons (increasing their value against tanks and shields with minimal change to focused damage).

[AnnaBanana-11409]

Your DM buff suggestions make a lot of sense! However, I don’t think I’m well-informed enough on its shape to make any definite decisions regarding its structure. But you make some very good points!

I did make some changes above, adding a separate DM option. I feel like it’s a bit of a compromise between our visions. You can still flash DM on and off rapidly, but doing so drains resources rather quickly, and prevents her from holding it down for a long time. Also, the slow resource generation means that if you want to make a big damage block as D.va, you’ll have to predict enemy ultimates and dedicate time to save up on resources for a while before they come online.

As for the Boosters, I’m considering removing the cooldown nerf, since people don’t seem to like that. But in the context of the other changes listed, I’m wondering if she would be too powerful…

[Marcane-11355]

I’m going to point this out real fast, I am a D.va main. So from the words of a D.va main, we shall see the changes.

@AnnaBanana-11409

Mech HP reallocated to 300 health + 300 Armor (600 HP total)

• Emmy’s notes: The increased armor should allow D.va to stay in the enemy’s backline for a little longer, establishing herself as a more persistent threat.

I mean, sure. Don’t see a problem with hp shift here, as long as it doesn’t change the overall number of health, which it doesn’t so we’re good.

@AnnaBanana-11409

Fusion Cannons

• Maximum damage per pellet decreased from 2 to 1.8.
• Spread angle reduced from 4.15 degrees to 3.55 degrees.
• Movement penalty decreased from 50% to 35%.
• Emmy’s notes: This is a net buff. These changes allow for a more consistent damage output with the Fusion Cannons. Tightening the spread allows for D.va to deal more damage as she is boosting towards a target, while still preventing her from being too effective at range. Additionally, the increased movement speed should lessen the need for her to stop firing when her target is moving away.

I mean, back in GOATs meta, she was chosen to not only eat Zarya ults, but also because of her poke damage. Her poke damage at the time was the thing that partly made her meta. So making it so that it’s harder to poke and more into you have to be aggressive, it’s an unsure change. But less movement penalty, sure I’ll take it.

@AnnaBanana-11409

• Defense Matrix (Option 1)
• Maximum uptime increased to 4 seconds.
• Maximum recharge time increased to 8 seconds.
• Cooldown increased to 2 seconds (up from 1.5)
• Emmy’s notes: The increased uptime for Defense Matrix should allow D.va to provide more consistent cover for herself and her allies. However, the increased cooldown should prevent players from “feathering” the ability.
• Defense Matrix (Option 2)
• Maximum uptime increased to 3 seconds.
• Cooldown reduced to 0.5 seconds.
• Maximum recharge time increased to 9 seconds.
• Emmy’s notes: This version of Defense Matrix features much more flexibility – you can feather it to prolong it, or hold it up to block a big wave of damage (such as an ultimate). However, resource management is now more crucial than ever, as it will take longer to refill.

First option, I don’t like this. We already have Sigma, so why do we need another Main Tank with a DM? Us D.va players had to learn how to feather the ability as a skill so that then we can time it right to eat ults and protect our team. Holding it down takes away the ability to time the DM right to come in for the save. Option 2 I like much better. You can feather or hold it down that way. But you give penalty for holding down DM for too long, which makes sense. She’s an Off Tank, so we don’t need the first option.

@AnnaBanana-11409

Added a dance emote to Pilot form.

• Emmy’s notes: Seriously, it’s been four years.

LOL on this one. But I agree, seriously, let us do more with Baby D.va. I would totally like to see her dance outside of mech or grab her phone and mess around with it. Just something else besides her heart-breaker emote (which personally, not only do I not like that emote she does in her baby D.va currently, but it’s also been too long since baby D.va has recieved anything, so please give Baby D.va something else)