Doomfist feels fine to me

I’ll preface this with yes, I understand that at lower SR brackets, doom is a scary one shotting guy, because team play and awareness are down. I get that’s why he’s scary there.

In high SR, doomfists value - the reason you take him over a hitscan, Genji, or Tracer, is because of his ability to lock down. Drawing enemies in with slam is effectively a close-and-personal version of Orrissa’s orb right click. It’s the “Come get em boys” trumpet sound that alerts everyone to a good choice of pummeling target.

Currently, Doomfist’s slam doesn’t give you the “I have you now” moment that makes him valuable. Sure, uppercut used to give you that, too, but it was grossly overdone with the whole “you can’t move at all for the entirety of this”. If you’re going to surge into the enemy with 250+35 hp and a hitbox the size of Roadhog, you’re going to need a little bit of assurance that someone is going to be there to get hurt.

If his value of being a “gotya now” guy is gone, you need to adjust his kit that he can be valuable doing something else. Being the guy with a one shot mechanic that screams “I AM GOING TO PUNCH YOUUUUUU” before it happens is no way of life at high SR. Not with the current way it all works.

On to your ultimate statement:
“I think its offensive capabilities are appropriate for the amount of risk inolved, which is to say there is none. If you want it to be more powerful, it needs to have more risk and counterplay.”

You’re really going to have to elaborate on the no-risk. I get the I-frames, or the cooldowns refilling while he’s up in the air. You need to understand that this thing is doing 100 damage on average these days. It’s resulting in a lot of absolute whiffs. It’s also a move that, like his punch, gives a big “HERE I COOOOOME”. You are going to be deleted against people that are competent if your ult does not provide kill value.

Doomfist’s ult is used as a retreat so often because to use it offensively can often be next to suicide. It’s also SMALLER when it’s supposed to be BIGGER.

If you like the ult the way it is, right now, you’re basically saying that the devs were wrong and that Doomfist, in fact, needed ANOTHER nerf, that being to his ultimate.

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No, I’m not. I’m saying it has little counterplay. Its current low lethality makes up for that, which means it is not OP.

It really does not.

It used to have free kills, now it does not. It is no longer OP.

I never said trans isn’t counterplay. I said it demands an unreasonable and disproportionate amount of resources to be counterplayed for how little risk it has compared to other ults of similar value.

The same thing applies to Lucio. And his ult doesn’t charge any faster than Zen’s.

What??? This makes literally no sense. You objectively can stop dragonstrike. It’s difficult depending on the circumstances, but it is possible and happens often. It’s not even a possibility for Doomfist’s ult.

Again, resorting to trying to attackme personally instead of my argument in an attempt to discredit arguments that you cannot counter.

But now it takes effort, has more counterplay, and isn’t guaranteed to result in an instakill.

But now it doesn’t double as a free kill.

But now it’s not in tandem with other parts of his kit which can effortlessly instakill you.

See the earlier point about ad hominem.

Yes, now he has more. My argument is that it’s a good thing that he has more weaknesses now.

See my earlier point about this.

Except he didn’t have “easy counterplays”. The only counterplay was stunning and killing him before he could get a pick, but there was a very small window to do so because of how mobile he was and how effortless the combo was. Now he has to get closer to engage from a distance, has to put more effort into the combo, and has more counterplay.

It’s hardly a risk when he has i-frames upon landing, tons of overshields, and all his abilities off cooldown to either keep fighting or escape.

Not at all, because he gets 75 barrier for hitting heroes…

The problem is that he can’t be good at both controlling the enemy’s movement and instakilling them. If you want him to excel at one, you have to give up some of the other. Also, his hitbox is absolutely not the size of Roadhog. It’s smaller than recon Bastion.

It gives you i-frames, tons of overshields, gives your abilities time to cooldown, and lets you position anywhere on the map you want. Even if it doesn’t kill, it’s doing damage and disrupting the enemy, which makes your job of further disrupting and killing them easier. There is no risk that wouldn’t be present in any other dive if you made a mistake, except there’s a lot of benefits.

If there’s a legitimate bug with the ult, then it should be fixed. But yes, I think currently it’s about the level of lethality that an ult with no risk should be at.

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I would judge doomfists I-frames landing from ult the same as Mei’s ice block if we knew exactly when she was going to crack out. This is a pretty good example, especially considering how uppercut has similarities to ice wall for the dodge here. I’m sure you can think of plenty of times a 250 HP mei has been punished for coming out of ice block. Just being instantly deleted.

In your best case scenario here, we’re saying doomfist hit two players. That means he has 400 HP and a larger hitbox. I get that you’re going to say he’s gonna rocket punch away to safety and everythings going to be hunky dory, but that’s not my general experience. If you don’t kill something with that ult, you’re going to have an assload of damage coming your way.

You think 400 HP is a lot of health. You tell your team that in one second, at a highlighted ring on the map, a Zarya is going to appear with bubble on cooldown. That there will be an exact moment, always the same, that they will be vulnerable. If that Zarya isn’t dead or near dead, the team’s got big issues.

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From an overall play perspective at the 3750 - 4000 level, I would trade damage on rocket punch for the return of slam-pin in a heartbeat. Rocket punch is primarily mobility in Masters. Dying to it is either not being at full health or, more often than not, an amusing mistake. Slam’s Orissa orb like nature is definitely far more valuable at those ranks.

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400 HP is a lot for a hero with a hitbox smaller than a tank and tons of mobility. Zarya can’t fly around the map like Doomfist can, doesn’t have a stun, and can’t displace enemies (not nearly as much, anyways).

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He requires a fairly different play-style now and it’ll take time for people to adjust.

Soooo… how do you explain the 7% fall in winrate?

How about we take away a third of Widowmaker’s grapple distance and a quarter of her damage? Then when he pickrates a winrates inevitably drop, you can talk about how much the community is exaggerating how bad she is.

What does Mercy have to do with anything?

15/20 is 1/4, not 1/3.

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Doomfist had much better pick and winrates at high levels.
Probably because anybody who could control him at all climbed there, since the hero had no real counter play.

That “I have you now” moment also made him overpowered.
It was a way too easy to land ability to actually be that rewarding.

Oddly enough other DF mains claimed that punch was actually OP.
So they wanted that nerfed, because that’s the one ability they rarely use for killing? :thinking:

There is finally some counter play to the hero. Not too much, but DF players have to aim now.

Why would you do that? Widow is balanced…

Besides, that indirect damage nerf is on an ability you use for the CC anyway, and not your only, or even main source of damage…

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This is across all elo’s. The argumant people used was Doomfist was a high skill hero theirfor he’s allowed to be the way he was. Now that he’s actually high skilled, low elo players aren’t utilizing him effectively which is tanking his win rate, meanwhile in high elo his winrate is finally in line with most of the roster.

Judging hero’s from their stats across all elo’s is never a good idea, just look at Ana who’s sub 50% in gold and plat but is undeniably strong.

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There was always counterplay. Maybe you’re just bad?

Pot calling the kettle black.

Ok so we’re going to pretend that 85 damage is not a significant number. Look. I get as a Widow onetrick you’re going to have a bias against something that forces you to use the WASD keys on your keyboard or gasp cause you to switch to something more appropriate, but you could at least be more subtle about it.

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idk why the whole combo thing was such a problem. so many other heroes are so much simpler than him that get insta kills without having to use all their abilities… so why ppl even bother getting salty? brig still has her combo that does a hell of alot of damage even if it isn’t as crazy as it use to be.
junkrats ult one shots, d’va’s one shots… why… are we taking his ability to do that too away?

i am definitely not a fan of the current doom. im no pro doom i am a doom main… can still get POTG and do well in most games… but these nerfs… totally not needed.

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“my hero is balanced, everyone else is bad” - this is so typical…
But that sort of reasoning would explain why his winrate dropped.

Literally the issue was with Doomfist that he didn’t allow you to use your WASD keys…

You just scored a self goal.

Most other non-ult oneshots either take much more effort or are much more limited. Brig can only combo you within 6 meters, and even pre-nerf it didn’t one-shot anyone other than Tracer and baby D.va. Widowmaker at least has to aim at you to one-shot you and can be blocked by shields. Doomfist could slam you from 20 meters away and instakill you for simply mashing buttons.

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The thing that bugs me about Doomfist’s nerfs is that they nerfed the things that made him viable without buffing anything in return. His people-don’t-get-to-fight-back abilities were BS, for sure, but they were also the only thing that made him consistently useful.

Now all he is really good for is his potential one-shot, and that is totally reliant on map geometry. Not to mention it also puts him in awful positions that are now harder to get out of because of his slam distance nerf. These changes were really not well thought out.

fellow plat player detected