DF being a hero whose main purporse is to kill while being a purely melee hero means that he is either:
Underpowered because he cant live enough to kill people and he doesnt have any other alternative playstyle or a plan B.
Overpowered because he can live enough to kill people, and since he is all melee against a 90% ranged roster, he is balanced around killing when he gets to get to melee range, little questions asked.
Him being a CQC and flanker hybrid with a kit that potentially has the advantages of both while covering their weaknesses is problematic at BEST.
I’m aware of this but even the best DF players in the world are finding rollouts to be basically feeding these days; they’re entirely coubterable and in fact weak
I understand that concern, but that’s how DF is now anyways; he’s a hero who relies on interaction with map geometry and rollouts are about getting creative with those interactions
Well first of all believe me nowadays he’s far from “hypermobile” and in fact he’s never been when compared to heroes like Ball, Genji, and Echo
Besides that though the mobility is a requirement of having a melee-range DPS; you can dislike that but that’s simply the requirement of the hero design, as is a quick TTK and CC. You don’t have to like it, but you do need to understand why DF needs them at a fundamental level
The backup playstyle was and should be punch spamming.
It’s not overpowered if you listen for all the crazy sounds he makes and bring some burst damage and CC; back in the day a Hog hook or McCree flashbang still screwed me over on a rollout as much as they do today
At no point I said that the performance of rollouts was out of line, what I said that is they are wholly disgusting to play against, even if its a 1v1 exchange. And lets be honest, a suicide attacker doesnt aid their team either.
They are just a gimmick being paraded as skillful, to the detriment of the hero and players themself.
No, thats what DF mains have reduced and are actively choosing to reduce DF to. Flankers can perfectly exist without such gimmicks, and thats the standard DF players should expect from Blizz changes, not hope that they dont remove too many surfspots to make him finally unusable.
He… has always been compared to Genji and Tracer. Mobility + damage is the defining factor of a flanker. He has much more in common with them that with Mei or Reaper, who either lack mobility or its conditional.
Issue is that DF shouldnt have been a tanky hypermobile flanker with a oneshot and CC. Thats a rabbit hole of bad design, because in trying to keep EVERYTHING you will end up losing that. DF cant be a balanced hero AND be a contradiction of roles and subclasses.
Other flankers arent as tanky, and other CQCs arent hypermobile. At this point, DF’s design has to give it up somewhere, or be reworked into an off tank. Or be nerfed into a husk of what he was.
This isnt even touching upon things like his ult being poop aside being used as an escape.
McCree’s flashbang is on a hero with no real way to get into range, and Hog was a massive balance issue for years. Those are not good examples.
They’re only disgusting if you don’t listen for his abilities to go off and you position yourself in ways that prevents your team from using CC or burst damage on him; get headshot by a Widow or a Hanzo so far away you didn’t even see them and get back to me on how ridiculous it is for rollouts to kill. And no, a suicide attacker doesn’t aid their team, but before the mobility nerfs he wasn’t necessarily a suicide attacker; if you were skilled at using his abilities you could escape afterwards too.
If this is a gimmick, then I’m afraid the entirety of Ball’s kit and Pharah’s ability to rest on roofs are also gimmicks.
DF can’t; that’s my point.
Agreed; he’s a flanker and so needs his mobility and rollouts.
Yes, his ult is garbage.
And no, you don’t; it’s the core idea behind DF that he is a melee-range DPS with no poke or anything like that. He simply requires these things to work as the core identity that he is just like how Torb needs his turret and armor and Sym needs her TP and turrets
You use these defensively against DF; it’s what they’re designed to do
Decrease punch maximum damage to 150 (50 initial, 100 on hitting wall) and then you can revert punch charge time nerf, uppercut recovery nerf and slam distance nerf. Uppercut air-lock nerf shouldn’t be reverted cuz 3 seconds was too much.
I don’t know what to do with meteor though – if it is buffed to be useful again – low mobility healers and dps will have no counterplay since DF is invulnerable and invisible during ult.
Animation now like Thundercrash from Destiny 2, where Doomfist launches himself into the air and forward, glowing bright Blue and covered in electricity
The punch needs to one shot on principle though; otherwise there’s no backup for the hero and the ability becomes largely pointless to use for anything but mobility. It makes more sense to simply decrease how easy it is to one shot rather than just make it impossible; this is especially needed because of heroes like Mei and Moira who tend to have immense survivability otherwise
What makes DF an incredible design in the first place is that he’s a fighting game character in OW; in a proper fighting game he’d be actually pretty unremarkable.
You find em they’re just rarer than a Lucio player with self-control lol
The only issue I see with this is the complete removal of Rocket Punch’s stun effect. Punch’s ability to cancel ultimates is very useful. Perhaps a reduction in stun time to the point where its almost unnoticable, but that ability to stop critical abilities is very nice to have.
I also worry a bit about rocket punch being aimed in any direction but that’s something I’d have to see to really understand.
Edit: OOOH wow, Punch “must be fully charged to activate” just gave me FEAR. I’ll pass on that as well.
At that point, give him about 150 HP and slightly nerf his shield generation. He’ll make a nice off-tank.
And we are just going to ignore how Bastion requires team effort to take down? Some heroes are mean’t to require team effort to take down, Doomfist has his counters, Some are just not good in compositions as of now (Sombra, Roadhog, Reinhardt, Mei, Echo, Orisa, etc.)
Exactly the point, but, I think buffing shield generation, reducing cd on his abilties to 4s, and give him 50 health would be better. A tank that relies on performance to be tanky imo is better. That part differs him from hamster.
I agree it’s very nice to have, but I got rid of it because it’s one of the many things people complain about, plus it’s not the strong point of Rocket Punch and also was only added to make it so that people actually took the Wall damage. Reducing it to something like 0.1 seconds would be fine, too, so long as it was almost unnoticable and people stopped complaining about the stun of it lol
So, it’s just that you can now aim it up and down as well, giving it more mobility options. It would make Slam stronger, but I’m also on the fence of adjusting his combo so that people will stop complaining about that while also keeping it strong. I’m still adjusting numbers there.
So, that’s kind of one of the points. It’s meant to be strong but also have more counterplay, once again to appease the people that dislike it. This isn’t my personal ideal Rocket Punch rework, but it’s the best one I think I could have come up with that would make both sides happy in the end. It gets rid of almost all the complaints that people have with it while still keeping it strong, just adjusting the power in the ability. And if the full charge is scare because of the charge time, that can always be changed for balance reasons, which includes possibly shortening it to something like 0.75 seconds since it requires a full charge to activate.
All the characters support bad behavior because all the characters are different and so are the players which blizzards motto for overwatch is inclusivity they have no basis of what is a support, what is a dps, and what is a tank.
