#Don't bring Mass Rez back


#2042

1 person Rez is not the same as a 1-3 person Tempo Rez. An if sh** hits the fan and ones team is about to be wiped (game awareness), Mercy does not have the back-up that Mass Rez was. It’s like taking away Zenyatta’s or Lucio’s team saving Ultimates an giving them a much weaker, in comparison, ultimate that won’t save their team an expecting those players to say “Yep, this is fine.” An putting their team saving Ultimate on an “E” ability, with a 30 second cool-down, Heavily restricted in both movement and cast time (1.75 seconds), an is it only able to save 1 person.
This is what people, an certain people in particular (streamers, Bliz), seem to be missing. Yes, when the Rework came out it was a more powerful Mercy, but it was too powerful. After 15 Nerfs, not all needed in many people’s opinion, Mercy is basically back to Release Mercy without a game changing Ultimate.
Things people keep throwing out against Mass Rez are:

  1. Hide and Rez was at thing- True, but how often did it REALLY happen? No one outside of Bliz knows because they have not released any info on it.
  2. There were no counters for Mass Rez- After the introduction of Invulnerability, for the most part, true. However people keep missing:
  • Use another Ult after Rez (Ultimate Economy), you know an Ult to counter an Ult.
  • Shoot her before she can perform it. This worked very well by the way, with plenty of video evidence out there for proof.
  • Mercy is a no aim, no brain Hero- thank you ‘Screaming Monkey’ for that analogy. Sorry but no, Mercy does require aim, especially when her teammates are grouped up, so that she is healing the correct person. Unlike the buff to Ana that allows her to shoot through fully healed teammates to injured ones Mercy has to click at the right time to get the correct person. Not to mention if Mercy has to defend herself and go Battle Mercy.

But not as much fun, being basically reduced to a Pocket Healer for long rang (Hanzo, Widowmaker, Ashe) or flying (Pharah) Heroes. Sure, many people like to think that Mercy was always supposed to be just that, a Pocket Healer. However, with 60hps (which she was originally buffed to keep up with Ana’s release) she could solo heal or dual heal her entire team easier than she can now.
To top that off most of the people who want Mass Rez back are putting in counters which were missing from original Mass Rez:

  • 1 second or slightly longer cast time- About the same amount of that Lucio (among many other Heroes) gets to cast his/their Ultimate.
  • LoS restriction- Unlike Original Mass Rez that could go through walls.
  • No Invulnerability during casting of Rez- A Damage Reduction or an actual “E” ability that helps Mercy get to a safe area after casting, rather than “Rez and Die” leaving the team short a healer.

There were already changed being brought out before Rework went live that people tend to (more like all the time) forget:

  • No Rez from Spawn- even though other Heroes can still use their Ultimates from spawn. Not just DPS but Zenyatta can pull his Ult and rush out to save his team, if close enough (2nd point Anubis, end of Gibraltar, etc.)
  • Removal of SR exploit from game- which probably would have stopped most of the “Hide and Rez” game play from even occurring in the first place.

Unfortunately both came out only 1 week before Rework release, giving a very short time to see if these changes would have effected game play. An nothing has been released from that 1 week of play if either change reduced or stopped “Hide and Rez” from occurring. While we spent months with an OP Mercy even though it was obvious when Rework went live that it was too powerful.
Seems like a lot of information, which could and probably would show that the Rework wasn’t necessary in the first place, has not been released to the public. Unlike this person suggests.

OH? Where is the evidence that MOST Mercy players were only using “Hide and Rez” and very few were using Tempo Rez? Guess what, that evidence just does not exist, because Bliz has not released that information to anyone. You, an others, like throwing that out but it is a false statement because there is no proof one way or another. Maybe it was like you said, but probably not.
Minor to major tweaks could have been put on original Mass Res to reduce or totally eliminate negative game play from occurring in the first place either came out too late or were never instigated at all.


#2043

in at least diamond and up they said this a lot. it wasnt super rare


#2044

Color me shocked! /s

Cause you couldn’t go anywhere on the forum and be assaulted with “that’s so rare though!”


#2045

Which are smaller part of the community, so it’s still rare.


#2046

Valkyrie is not weaker in the context of her overall kit. You forget to take that into account.

Yeah, because bringing someone back from the dead (or deleting a mistake) is a pretty powerful tool one that needs to be balanced appropriately.

Pretty often. It’s very well documented.

So what’s there to discuss? Mass Rez pretty much had almost no counter whatsoever.

You realize you essentially are promoting terrible ultimate economy. The team already threw two ultimates which got deleted and now have to throw yet another ultimate or two. Basically 4 ultimates just to counter Mercy’s ultimate. Not to mention, even if Mercy was killed she could come back from spawn on most maps quick enough.

Both points negated as seen above. Killing Mercy first was in no way, shape or form a guarantee due to the design of most maps.

Mercy requires no mechanical skill except her pistol. Her primary function requires zero aim, you don’t even need to be looking in the direction of the ally at all for the tether to work. Mercy is balanced when looking at things contextually and factually and her kit performs well.

That’s not objective and it’s entirely subjective and not something that can be debated. Irrelevant to the conversation.

This has always been the case, literally since the inception of the game.

What’s the point of Mass Rez then if you can’t use it other than tempo rez? Which you already have.

Doesn’t solve Hide&Rez.

What’s the point of a cast time if Mercy is actively harder to kill due to damage reduction.

I’m sorry but none of your suggestions are well thought out - you actively want to make Mercy under-powered or OP.

Bringing people back from death and throwing an ultimate that can be easily avoided are two completely separate things that cannot be compared even remotely.

That still doesn’t bring people back from the dead.

And now she is balanced. I don’t see how you can complain that your character is OP. This is nonsense.

The thousands of videos on youtube, the guides on reddit and other places, the posts on the forums, the community’s perception, the Pros and the devs commenting and acknowledging it in a developer’s update. That Mass Rez doesn’t exist in the game anymore because they deemed it an unhealthy mechanic.

That’s pretty sufficient evidence as far as I’m concerned. Where is your evidence?

Hide and Rez happened everywhere.


Why I Have Yet to Not Despise Mercy's Current State
#2048

No, but it does all of Mercy’s work for her providing that her team sticks together. Oh wait, there comes a team wiping enemy Ult, sure wished I was on Zenyatta/Lucio and could have protected my team because my team just died…
If you are gonna REPLACE a Team Winning Ultimate, you better replace it with Team Winning Ultimate. Valkyrie will not protect Mercy’s teammates from focused fire, much less a damaging Ultimate.

Yeah, with TWEAKS not a complete Rework. But no, that didn’t happen an after 15 Nerfs for ‘Balance’ Mercy is back to Release state without a way to save her team. If you have to Nerf something 15 times just to balance it, it shouldn’t have been done in the first place.

As for Hide and Rez.

Does anyone have a percentage of times that it did happen? Anyone? No, and why? Because Blizzard hasn’t released any numbers to back up this claim.

You won’t listen to anything about there being counters, so gonna skip over that part. Even though with the Rework many Mercy players would like to see which OFFERS you counters, you have been drinking the Mass Rez is bad cool-aid too long.

But this No aim No brain reply you put it…

So, now many Mercy players have forsaken healing for the most part and are going “Battle Mercy” with some healing. Guess what, we get reported for that. Talk about a 'Lose, lose" situation…

On my comment that Mercy is “not as much fun” you put in

Funny a Hero can be Reworked because it is “Not fun to play against” but when we complain that it isn’t “as much fun” as it used to be we are in the wrong. Double Standard Much?

As for being a Pocket Healer…

Ummm, how about NO. Mercy could be used as a Pocket Healer, sure, but that is boring. Zipping around and healing her entire team is much more fun than “Mercy, stick with me.” buff of Ashe being added to the game. Damage Boosting BOB is alright, along with any other Hero that has an Ultimate going off, oh wait. Most of those have have been Nerfed out of Mercy’s kit…
_ Hanzo Ult Boosting- gone_*
_ D.Va Ult Boosting- gone_*
_ Junkrat Ult Boosting- gone_*

Some of the most powerful Ultimates that Mercy used to be able to Boost have been Nerfed to where it doesn’t work any more. This makes her kit inconsistent, but it was also done for the same “not fun to play against” reason that the Rework was forced upon us.

For 1 Person, not 2-5 people. Using Mass Rez for a 2-3 person Rez rather than a “Huge Rez” of 4-5 people was still game changing. Rezing 1 person, unless they have an Ultimate that can take out the whole enemy team, does not have as much UMPH as Rezing 2-3 people to keep the momentum going. Since the game release I, among many others, had very few Mass Rezes of 4-5 people. Most were of 2-3, an I can count on 1 hand how many “Huge Rez” of 4-5 people I pulled off. Unless the Mercy player was going for the SR exploit, it was more common to see a Tempo Rez of 1-3 people than a “Huge Rez”. Sure, there were occasional “Clutch Rez” of anywhere between 3-5 teammates, but even that was removed from the game because it was “not fun to play against.” No Ultimate that either takes out multiple people or, in the case of Lucio and Zenyatta, keeps your ultimate’s from killing off an enemy team is “fun to play against.”

OH, byt the way, they DID Remove the SR Exploit from the game, but only 1 week before the Rework. That, that right there, probably reduced the number of “Hide and Rez” from the game dramatically. Unfortunately, we have no idea how much since, like the number of times “Hide and Rez” was actually used, this information has not been released to the public.

Ummm, point of fact, these are NOT my ideas.

Came from many Mercy players who have discussed reworking Mass Rez back into Mercy’s kit. The complete list of ideas can be found here:


And have been worked on for the better part of a year since the Rework occurred. So they HAVE been well thought out. I just put in 3 of the most popular reasons. An if you notice, that thread is the most UP voted thread of all the threads on this forum.

But not as much fun or engaging since her Team Saving Ultimate was removed. But, like a broken record player, you keep repeating yourself.

Mass Rez was NOT bad for the game, how some people used it for the SR Exploit was. There were ways to remove that problem, thus reducing the number of “Hide and Rez” or totally eliminating it, but you refuse to even acknowledge them and see if they would work. Thus the fight between people who want Mercy to be engaging and ‘fun’ to play again an people who would like to just remove Mercy and Resurrect from the game entirely continue.


#2049

Hence you have main healer and an off-healer, off-healers have life saving ultimates. Main healers don’t…

Not a double standard at all since the fun part was only part of the multiple reasons Mercy got reworked.

How do people still not know this?

No they have not, why does nobody ever ask themselves this questions:

Is it a good idea to put restrictions on an ult that was already f-tier and mostly got used because of a broken SR mechanic?

Mercy with Mass Ress saw no play time in any tournament, both pro-play and open divisions…

Not only was Mass Ress abused, it also just was a bad ult.


#2050

An with Mercy being relegated to Off Healer status, where is her game changing Ultimate?

Yeah, to get Mercy to be played in the Pro area they Reworked her into the OP monster that everyone hated. Yeah, GOOD idea that one…


#2051

Except she’s still a main healer…

Yeah, she definitly never gets used right now /s

There’s pro teams building entire comps around her, with her solo healing.
Most recent world cup, she got picked up quite a lot.
In contenders she’s seeing quite a lot of usage


#2052

Ana = Main Healer with Team saving Ability
Moira = Main Healer self saving Ability

Both can easily out-heal Mercy, and both have a Burst healing ability or self sustaining ability. Thus:

  • Mercy = Off Healer with Valkyrie Ult that cannot save 1 person from focused fire much less a team killing Ultimate. But can be used to either go ‘Battle Mercy’ or used to escape if team gets wiped.

But with no team saving Ult like, unlike:

  • Lucio = Off Healer with a team saving Ultimate
  • Zenyatta = Off Healer with a team saving Ultimate.

Used as a Main Healer, healing her entire team, an not a Pocket Healer for a sniper or a ‘Battle Mercy’?
Don’t get me wrong, I like going Battle Mercy an showing up some of the DPS who are supposed to be taking out enemies. But that isn’t being a Main Healer which heals all of her teammates an rarely pulls out her pop gun. Course, if one does outshine their DPS while keeping their team alive, then they are reported for it. Talk about a ‘Lose, lose’ situation.


#2053

Team saving ultimate?
Great man that can save an entire team in a grav with nano…

Not an ultimate, and so has Mercy.

Both are burst healers, Mercy is a consistent healer.
All 3 are main healers though.

Since you ignored:

Here, OW contenders with solo heal Mercy:

https://www.zhanqi.tv/v2/videos/861731.html
https://www.zhanqi.tv/v2/videos/866123.html
https://www.zhanqi.tv/v2/videos/866187.html
https://www.zhanqi.tv/v2/videos/866233.html
https://www.zhanqi.tv/v2/videos/866223.html


#2054

Random off topic question I just noticed

the numbers for replies and views are orange

What does that signify


#2055

Stop trolling please.


#2057

What do you mean by that? You still have to do things, plenty of things. If you are playing it like a “spectator mode”, that’s not an issue with the ultimate. Compare that to pressing Q for instant reward like Mass Rez was.

You have 5 different teammates that can account for that. And a secondary support. Don’t see what the issue is.

No support can protect teammates from focused fire. And that absolutely should be the case. Supports being too good and healing being too much is the reason why Hanzo/Widowmaker and Goats exist. The healing power creep is real.

Complaining that your character was OP is pretty funny if you ask me. Also you conveniently forget the buffs she received. At any rate, Mercy is viable so I don’t see any issue currently.

Even the developers acknowledged it and they are pretty much the authority on this game. There are thousands of videos on youtube, guides etc. You need one google search and presto. What more evidence would you want? And where’s your evidence that it didn’t happen?

Yeah, cause it was bad. And the OP of this thread gave you multiple reasons why it’s bad that are very well documented and supported by evidence.

This is anecdotal point. I never get reported for using my pistol during Valkyrie. Nobody I know gets reported for playing Mercy in general. And I’ve never seen anyone calling to report Mercies in my games, sorry. Please don’t put the victim narrative.

That’s not why Mercy was reworked. OP gave you the reasons why Mass Rez was reworked. Don’t try to spin a false narrative please. Plenty of reasons why Mass Rez was reworked, many of which you can read at this thread at your convenience.

How about yes. Mercy has always been used as a pocket healer, this isn’t something new. Just because you chose not to play in this fashion doesn’t change the reality.

No, it’s done for actual valid reasons being the developers never intended Mercy to be able to damage Dragon which essentially made it so that even Trans couldn’t save anyone. Essentially making Grav + Dragon having zero counter-ability. Which is by the way one of the reasons why Mass Rez was removed.

Anecdotal evidence and very unpopular. Some people did Tempo Rez but Hide&Rez was the predominant strategy by far and large.

Already demonstrated that’s not the case. Many others have clearly demonstrated that to you as well. The developer update also states some of the reasons.

I meant you as a group, not you personally.

Terrible idea that’s not well thought-out at all.

It is a terrible idea and it will make Mercy OP. Just because something is up-voted on a small forum by a small group of people doesn’t make it valid (1000 people is literally nothing in the context of the Overwatch player-base). Getting your little group to like your idea is not really surprising and it doesn’t mean much.

Fun is subjective, has no relevance to the conversation.

She is engaging and impactful. Not playing her properly is the fault of the player, not the hero.

Clearly it has been demonstrated otherwise.

It’s not a fight. It’s just one small group that won’t let the past die and want Mercy to be OP when the majority of the community, the devs and the pros agree that she is currently viable and fits her niche. Give it a rest, learn to play new Mercy (it’s been 1 year+) or change to a different hero if you don’t like her anymore. Me and others will continue to play her in your stead and enjoy a fun and impactful hero.


#2058

op’s main reason is that mass rez promotes “hide n rez” strategies which is so easily circumvented with changes. look at zen or lucio; both heroes with game saving ults and both heroes that are constantly in the fray and “not hiding”. their utility is massive outside of their ult, and their ults require them to stick to their team when the enemy zarya has grav due to the limited range.

i’m not necessarily advocating for mass rez, but the reasons to exclude it are asinine. if mercy got an impactful E ability and a severely reduced mass rez in terms of range, los requirements, and lessened rez window duration (like half of respawn), i can’t really see mass rez as an issue since it’d just force the mercy to be in combat.

the fear of mass rez cuz of goats is valid but misplaced. any support with meaningful utility will further goats; mass rez mercy would occasionally be played in place of lucio or something. blizz is basically barred from making any new supports until they can fix the actual issue with goats, which is brig, tank dmg, and tank busters.


#2059

LoS doesn’t fix Hide&Rez. Nothing prevents Mercy from hiding and coming out and mass rez-ing like the old days. Most maps are open, most points are open. LoS is hardly a detriment or a weakness considering Overwatch’s map design. Stop claiming that it’s a down-side when it’s not really a downside or weakness at all. People are naturally grouped together, the points are naturally open-wide spaces as are most maps.

“Go die on point I have rez” was super popular. LoS is absolutely not a solution at all and it’s not a weakness.

A cast time that’s very short doesn’t allow counter-play, a cast time that’s too long doesn’t allow for mass rez to be possible. If tempo res is all you want, you already got it with rez being on E and on a 30s cool-down.

These balance changes are not “easy” despite how much you Revertists / Reformists (or whatever the term is for people that wanna revert Mercy) want to claim. These so called “easy fixes” are not easy fixes at all.

Not to mention the so called most popular idea here on the forums gives her AoE 150 Burst Heal that can be used on top of Mass Rez for Mercy and her allies without even needing any dead allies. Essentially giving her a second ultimate like Symmetra. On top of a damage reduction ability!

Literally two huge buffs for the price of LoS which is nothing and a negligible cast time and an entire new ability. Anyone claiming this is not going to make Mercy OP and be-all end-all support used in all situations is flat out incredibly biased.

Goats and Hanzo/Widowmaker meta are symptom of supports being too strong and powerful. Healing is too good in this game. You don’t need to buff supports, on the contrary you need to limit healing. This meta literally doesn’t have a single DPS hero in it.

Mercy is viable currently.


#2060

Yeah, easily circumvented…

Ask yourself this question:


#2061

Which still remained better, than current one, due to not becoming useless with bad team, aka allowing to climb. Limits are mostly for people scared of that ult.

Pocketing one teammate, because anyone else doesn’t survive with that healing, feels like boosting. Between ult, that has all power for Mercy and almost none for her team, or ult, that doesn’t benefit Mercy, but greatly benefits her team, choice feels obvious.


#2062

However bad mass res might have been, I have no horse in that race, doesn’t make Valkyrie good. People just default to the ult they knew, better the devil you know, goes the human nature.

Valkyrie needs tweaking/changing/reworking/whatever. Mass res can remain where it is, or not, doesn’t matter to me as long as Valkyrie’s issues are addressed.


#2063

But can they be addressed, or it’s inherent design flaws?

Won’t mind replacing flight by making your teammate fly, since you got GA to stay with them.