Does Sym need more Damage or more Survivability?

i forgot to mention the lock on, which helps her immensely in a duel.
Higher damage potential doesn’t help her if the duel is initiated by the other guy, this fact doesn’t change even with the rework. The average dps still outdamages her.

And losing PB is indeed a huge loss, because it’s the one ability that helps her fend off so many things that would otherwise turn her helpless.
It’s also not simply needed for dueling.
It blocks Bastion and Torb’s turret, forces snipers to wait or reposition, blocks ults, and generally helps the team engage. 1000 health on a shield is a lot.
It’s the one de facto tool in her kit that actually gives her any sustain if you master its use. Well, other than SG.

Losing it will be a huge blow to any symm main out there… i’ve said this many times, but RIP PB.

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And let’s not forget those new turrets! If she can fire one in a straight line into the correct position at the beginning of a duel / teamfight, the 2x slowing effect could vastly improve her ability to keep the beam on the target for the ensuing fracas.


“Less” risk is quite pointless when majority of the maps are open spaces that are minimum 30 meters in diameter. The only times she is facing less risk is in small hallways.

That is why Zaraya has Her Shield + high health
Mei has Self Heal + Ice Wall
Reaper has Wraith + Shadowstep
Rein has 2000 hp shield + high health
Doomfist has High mobility

You are theoretically right that their is “less risk”
But when you compare it 7m range.

But the risk involved compared to other short range heroes is like comparing the distance between you and your home, and your home and Neptune.
She still has extremely high risk when compared to other short range heroes.

That is IF the teleporter spawned instantly.
There has been no buildable in this game with instant spawn and creation.
And it is quite unlikely it will be instant in this case as well.

I am including Widow’s Spidermine that takes time to “Activate”

Not enough to make her a viable choice or even a worry to most players.
I see a sym attempt to close in on me I side step the barrier she throws and just shoot her. I know my damage will out duel her because she only gets 90 hp over 2 seconds and I have the free shots against her as she closes range before she locks.

With her extended range she will not be alone as she can hang back with her team instead of closing to 7m.

Sustain that will not be needed since her newly found range will allow her to engage at safer ranges. We are talking about Pharah speed projectiles that are LARGER then pharah’s projectiles. I think fast moving projectiles are better deterrents for snipers, turrets and stationary bastions.

I’ve never felt as a teammate “Thank god for that projected barrier”.

The majority of maps are NOT a minimum of 30m in diameters horizontally. That is a strawman if I have ever heard one. How are Pharah’s rockets ever useful then? They move at that speed as well but yet they allow Pharah to engage at mid to long ranges just fine.

Yes, these are all means of survival. However they are not the only means of survival. McCree has zero mobility, zero self heals, no means of baiting out abilities, no projected barrier, no auto aim outside his ult, yet he is doing fine.

This is just another sign that you are still trapped in the concept that she will be solely a short range character. That will no longer be the case. She will have mid to long range options as well. Giving her dexterity to switch between CQC when closed on and ranging the enemy when they fall back or hold range.

You will not be confined to just CQC. You will have range.

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I’m on that weird boat that actually believes her current kit is not really weak, just severely misunderstood. Just tuning some of her numbers up probably would be enough to make her viable, just like they did with Mei.

But the major issue with Symmetra is that her fame is terrible, because of how underpowered she was at game release (and MANY players still believe some of her past limitations still apply, like “only good for point A defense”), and how easy it was for trolls to use her teleporter to grief her team, making people believe if you are picking Symmetra, you are trying to lure them into a pit. But this is a community issue, not a balance issue. Which is why I think the devs are changing her whole kit, to try to remove that perception from the community. And IMO, unless she gets overtuned to Valkyrie 1.0 levels of broken, I doubt that will be the case.

The only thing in Sanjay that is “more usefulness for the team” is the new teleporter. Everything else is pretty much “more damage”.

And the main problem I have with that approach is that I don’t see Symmetra’s character as a primary damage dealer. Alongside Mei and Mercy, she is the closest you have to a “civilian hero”, someone that have some special ability/weapon, but don’t focus that into battle as its primary use. Mercy character is about healing people hurt by the war. Mei is about fighting climate changes, and her short reveals she uses her weapon as a utility tool, not a killing tool. Symmetra focus her efforts into building a brighter future for everyone, and her comic reveals she is not found of the idea of killing people (unlike, Eg, Reinhardt or Junkrat show in their comics).

I can see she using her current beam as self-defense, and I can even see she “trying her best to not kill unless absolutely necessary”, with its ramp-up mechanics. Add to that the fact that the orb (which she used in the comic to STUN) is a better tool for 90% of the match, and the beam limited range, it plays within her lore. Giving her a face-melting weapon that incentives her to walk forward and melt people goes against the hero fantasy she is supposed to portrait.

Do you think she needs either? I feel like the sym players out there are already fine without a buff in either department.

If I were to pick one though, i’d go with survivability.

wait… what if instead of survivability, she gets a hologram ability where she parks somewhere and controls the fully functional hologram just like she would herself, and if/when the hologram dies, she just resumes like normal (think junkrats ult when he’s controlling the tire). essentially giving her 2 lives. whoaa

I’ve seen hundreds of situations where my teammate should have felt that way. It’s one of those things that is much more impactful than noticeable… along with the other 90% of Symmetra’s kit.


What… the… Seriously?
There are so many issues with this, I don’t even think you really thought that argument through on how a flying Hero has no space restrictions on attacking a target on the ground underneath her. So I am going to let you figure that one out.

It is a sign you have youthful optimism and hate blunt reality.
Just not practical in any sense of the word.

If her beam has the ability to gain ammo + damage from shields with a maximum potential of 190 / s.

That beam is not going to be 20m. It is not going to be 15m.
At max it maybe 12m. Which means she is worse off than she began.

The reason Moria’s beam is 20m and infinite ammo is because it only does 50 damage per second. We are talking about almost 4x the damage of Moria.

I hear that, sister.


She needed more range above all, either that or a kit that allowed her to engage and disengage from combat more easily. The extra damage I think was to make her more consistent because of the removal of auto-aim which was tied to the range increase.

i see this only for mccree, soldier, and snipers, probably junkrat too
mainly because burst damage can kill her off without the barrier that mostly ended up as a short duration personal shield with a long cd
but yeah the barrier did in fact increase her survivability
too bad it wasnt good for anything else apart for those situational ult saves, that again, still could get someone killed off though B(

Not really. Moira has mobility, and at the same time she has self sustain tied to her weapon. If Symmetra’s range is any lower than at least Zarya’s then there’s no point to the rework. She has no self sustain nor mobility (the new TP seem to be more of a positioning tool than anything), and short range doesn’t fit a kit like that.

Your right, my biggest issue is the orbs themselves being extremely out of character. I rather have the old ones back with the speedup, lock it to full charge only if they are op. The biggest issues from people is why charge it to full and just plink away at health with lvl 1/2 charge? Solved by locking it at full charge.

Tp should just be 2 way so we could use it like a tp dance, since straight up the item gimmick is going to be pretty much useless (seriously, 2 peeps having to aim, both parties knowing the exit vector, and coordination beyond just saying ‘let’s do this’). Solved by just sending the user through, its wasted power. Making the tp 2 way solves the survival issue by giving us a tp dance and doesn’t hurt the opposition as much since if you miss ya hit the tp.

That looks like Paladin’s Ying.

I really like Ying, so that is cool in my eyes.

That is the problem her kit balances her short range.

  1. Extremely easy way to charge up to do insane damage. Infinite ammo against shields + increasing damage?
  2. Ability to move your entire team including the least mobile heroes like Bastion and Orissa to flank enemies from different ways.
    For example taking the high ground in Numbani on the right side
  3. Firing turrets at range that can do potential 50+ damage per second and slow

The problem is her kit is tunned to move your team around and create deadly traps to assist your team. The kit it self does nothing for her though to solve her personal issues.

You clearly missed the point. I am not referring to the space restrictions tied to the hero. I am referring to the supposed space restrictions you placed on Syms 30m per second projectile ( and by proxy Pharah’s).

If all the maps are not useful for fast moving projectiles how is Pharah able to take long HORIZONTAL shots and produce good value? Because you do realize she does not use them solely in the air right?

That is the argument you made and I answered that logical fallacy with a counter. So kindly stop side stepping the point to make it about another aspect of Pharah’s kit.

Yet again. A sign that you are trapped in the concept that she only has ONE WAY of fighting the enemy. How is a 30m per second projectile not a long range weapon? Why would Sym be locked to just using her primary if her secondary fire can do 130 damage per max charge shot and have the dexterity to fire faster for 75 instead?

You are only looking at what her PRIMARY fire can do while ignoring what her SECONDARY offers her in range. All because up until now Sym’s only means to fight was her primary. Which is CHANGING and giving her two fire modes for engaging the enemy with differing range. One for mid to close (primary) one from mid to long (secondary).

Her entire means of engaging enemies is improving in a huge way but you cannot see it.

I like how new Sym sounds so far, good slow/area control with her new turrets and strong against Shields(which remember is the current meta now, so she could shake it up again).

What I need to see when she gets out is how fast her TP goes down, can it count as mobility for herself, if it’s too slow and can’t be used as any sort of escape then I think she needs a defensive option. If it’s very fast(>1 second) to set up and go through then I think she’ll be amazing.

Her damage and range is being increased because the auto-aim is being removed, the auto-aim places a lot of restrictions in order to keep it under control and not be something overpowered for an FPS. So the removal of the auto-aim opens up a lot of things they can do with her weapon in terms of tuning. Her alt-fire is also being made easier to hit with to improve her ability to fight targets at range. So she will be like a lot of other 200 HP heroes who lack a movement ability: she will be effective at range and up close, and compared to some she will be more durable due to the natural shields which regenerate when not taking damage.

I think a big concern should be how long the Teleporter lasts. If it lasts for awhile it can be setup in positions so that like Sombra Symmetra would have places to fall back to. While it also like Sombra or Reaper allows for approach from odd angles, only her team can use it. She could place it and if someone spots it and tries to abuse it could think that Symmetra is going to pop out… only for a Brigitte and Roadhog to pop out.

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If pharah can’t stay in the air she switches off Pharah that is pretty much basic rule. But majority of the time is she in the air, and the most value she gets is in the air because the angle of shots.

That is the reason why Pharah is an Airborn unit and not a ground based unit.

Your statement lacked logic to begin with, as you failed to realize why Pharah was made an Airborn unit and not ground-based one. Also why Pharah’s that can’t fly in the air usually switch to a different hero to be useful.

You claim “logic” yet why are you not comparing the speeds of projectiles of other ground-based units?

  • Hanzo - 100 m / s
  • Zenyatta - 80 m / s
  • Junkrat - 40 m / s
  • Mei - 120 m / s
  • Mercy - 40 m / s
  • Lucio - 50 m / s

Also to help you out here, considering how most of these projectiles travel 3 - 4x the speed of Symmetera how often do they land their hits even with MUCH faster speeds? Ya…

She fires 1 projectile every 1 second at a much slower speed.

In order for ground based projectiles to be effective they need speed.
Since Pharah is in the Air she gets the advantage of hitting the ground around the hero.

Also because she is in the air, she won’t be in direct line of sight, so rocket angles may not always be seen. So her advantage is angles + visibility.

Symmetera gets neither of those, she gets a slower projectile than pharah and because of its larger size it is very visible. making it much easier to avoid.

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