Do we need dps role at this point?

General Discussion
1

I mean, most tanks/supps can be dpsing and some even better than dps. Their numbers look low and harmelss but conditions/difficulty to be dpsing for them are way too easy so that it’s not hard to see their damage/killing surpasses the non-smurf dps.

Dps is not a special task or job in this game. Everyone can do that. I think it’d be better to remove dps role completely, and rework all the characters there into tanks or supps.(But don’t make them easier like the usual tanks/supps, cause that’ll effectively take the fun/popularity of the characters.)

This will surprisingly cure the biggest headaches in OW.

Goats, then RQ, then 5v5 and the new tanks’ rock-paper-scissors problem and steamrolling games. All the changes/symptoms were because of tanks. But this makes Goats no more problem without trashing half the characters. We would no more need 5v5 or even RQ. Multi tanks will also solve the rock-paper-scissors problem and reduce the steamrolling games.

A bonus : There’ll be much less OHK/instakill problems cause of the reduced damage of the former dps.

I know many people hated Goats and it indeed was boring, but it seems the game became even more goats than ever. Much more powerful tanks/supps now than in Goats era. Goats is perhaps the devs’ ultimate goal. Then it’d be better to remove dps role.

6 Likes
2

Since Illari dps is now more useless than ever. I can take my Bap and Illari and kill the dps role alone by myself. LW is another that has been power crept. That dude is not nice in 1v1.

3

Yes so I can play dps once I get done with phantom liberty.

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4

Honestly… i say remove all healing from the game… or give everyone the self heal passive and just let anyone play anyone… Its getting stupid how much damage supports can pump out… and when they “forget” to heal. And before you support defenders come out and say they arent meant to be heal bots, its true they arent meant to be heal bots, but healing is a massive part of their kit and its what their primary role is. If it isnt remove all all other than a self heal passive for everyone

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5

buff dps so they aren’t outclassed by broken tanks/ supports.

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6

Think of it this way - the game was already being played like 0-4-1 where you have one main healer and the other four are trying to score elims as quickly as possible.

So the job of dps isn’t obsolete, just the categorization of heroes into those roles. Like Illari is less of a support than Sombra is.

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7

What needs to happen is that Blizzard needs to get a grip on what they actually want the roles to be. Do they want supports to be hybrid healers/dps or do they want them to be able to stomp dps heroes into the ground. With all of this variation, it makes it hard to pinpoint what exactly Blizzard’s vision for the game and support role in general is. But me personally, doing that just sounds like taking the fun and complexity out of the game. While yes, all roles can dps, it is only the primary concern of the damage role itself. Supports should be more occupied with healing and utility while tanks should be more concerned with crowd control. Specifically killing is the role of damage and damage alone.

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8

I disagree. The dps role has been power crept as well. Just look at bastion. It’s just the support role has been buffed far more. The game overall could use a power decrease.

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9

All dps should be at Soldier, Bastion, Tracer, Sojourns level to compete with supports.

10

ive felt similar tbh like illari has way to high damage

11

Yes but rebrand the role as Cheerleaders

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12

The game will always lean towards goats without RQ. So this question is meaningless. There are some DPS heroes that are just as powerful as supports utility wise, such as mei.

I guess supports having DPS potential can make certain DPS players question the identity of their role. But tanks have higher DPS potential as well remember. So it’s just the shift in playstyle that happened due to 5v5.

3 Likes
13

The game needs less burst dmg, less cc and less healing. nah if anything S76 should get a helix cooldown nerf to 8 seconds. Sojourn railgun should be reworked to deal 130 dmg with no crit multiplier. Revert the torb changes so his shotgun isn’t better than reaper lol. Revert the cass nade change back to 120dmg with no hinder. Revert mei primary so it doesn’t slow but deals the 100dmg.

Then I’d rework or massively nerf invulnerabilities like suzu, life grip and lamp. Nerf healing overall. Remove the burst heal added to Brig and Bap. Remove the dumb overhealth from life weavers ult. Put Illari turret on a timer or resource so it can’t heal forever.

3 Likes
14

the dps role is weird because overall its weaker but every season or so they’ll buff some dps hero to the moon for a lil bit then nerf em back down to the ground.

most dps heroes are weaker today then they were a few years ago while all supports are stronger today then they were in that same time frame.

even across just ow2 pretty much all the top DPS heroes have been nerfed then not touched for seasons while the supports only started to get nerfs like what a season or so ago? lol

15

I love this weird echo chamber where Illari doesnt have half the DPS of the actual DPS heroes.

Keep it up guys, the delulu vibes are incredible! Its like going to a zoo but there are bad players in the enclosure.

6 Likes
16

its not that its too high, its that the hitbox on her “hitscan” weapon is too big. so she misses less and thus does alot more dmg overall.

its kind of the sym problem, some people think syms weapon takes good aim to use when really it has a massive hitbox to the point that even a gold player can have really high accuracy with it.

17

Because it does less damage, she has a much lower rate of fire, and she has exactly 10 damage outside of her primary.

Other hitscan DPS heroes have higher damage for headshots (often oneshots), higher rate of fire which in turn lets them fire more shots compare to Illari, and high damage abilities that arent hard to land.

She has basically no sustained damage threat, why should she be harder to aim with than heroes that do more damage and have more damage sources.

3 Likes
18

that doesnt mean her dmg potential isnt high. she can 2 tap squishies up til around 30meters and as i said before the hitbox on the weapon is really big for a hitscan.

just because her RAW dps is lower doesnt mean shes bad

soldier has always done more dps then widow but widow was always significantly more annoying to play into because she could 1 shot you (but when she did it, she had to actually aim lol).

comparing raw dps numbers is meaningless, potential impact is more important and she does alot of dmg in actual matches. she can 3 tap cass or 2 tap any 225hp squish

before she even has to reload she can do between 1050 and 1,575 dmg. for context soldier can only do around 570 and while he will do it faster he has to actually aim lol

my guess is you now main illari and want to justify her dmg because otherwise it would mean any progress you have made with the hero wouldnt be earned.

she has very high uptime due to her ammo count, and her dmg per shot is really good even with a slower fire rate.

but a funfact about fire rate if you are firing at the max rate your weapon allows on a weapon like that you are doing it wrong most of the time. you want to aim the shot so you head shot them and most people arnt going to land it at max speed.

with time you’ll be able to do it a bit faster but their were many times id wait way longer then 0.5 seconds to fire the 2nd shot on cassidy.

the only people ive met that look at dmg numbers to compare heroes like this are bad players. because anyone thats not plat knows that a fire rate doesnt matter lol

19

We just need to farm the DPS players as they are the easiest to kill. Slay DPS, win the fight. You’ll have a faster time kill them since supports won’t be focusing on supporting DPS players.

20

Its not high.

We are talking about a hero that even if she lands all headshots her dps doesnt go over 80 dps. For a 100% headshot accuracy.

She can be potentially dangerous to 200/225 heroes if they dont take cover, but her 2 tap is probably the most fair thing ever and its not a fast TTK like actual DPS. Its closer to Sym orbs in TTK than to any hitscan fire.

This is a good comparison but the difference here is that Widow oneshots. She bypasses healing, she bypasses any reactive counterplay while also forbidding most proactive counterplay.

Illari… does not do that. 2 taps, and specially with a long wind up between them, are nowhere near as dangerous as actual oneshots.

Meanwhile, Soldier still has much stronger AND easier burst than Illari, too. Bodyshots and a rocket are enough to pop 200hp heroes within less than a second. Illari has to wait a whole second, and land 2 headshots in a row.

Just about the only DPS heroes she makes considerably worse are heroes like Mei and Symmetra, and no one in this threat that is complaining about Illari is doing so for Symmetra’s sake lmao

Ah yes, here they are, the exaggerations about how Illari somehow now has an aimbot while Soldier is the Most Skillful Hero.

Soldier kills faster with bodyshots and his aoe rocket than Illari does with two headshots in a row. No matter how much you exaggerate about her primary hitbox, it will always be harder to land headshots with it than bodyshots + rocket with Soldier. Or Bodyshots and magnade with Cassidy. Or TNT and bodyshots with Ashe.

And its all extremely easy heal. Illari is not good at sustained damage. It doesnt matter if she has infinite ammo, if she isnt even pressuring through a Mercy beam’s healing then its just free ult charge for the enemy supports.

I dont care about your player performance.

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