🔷 [Discussion] Was Symmetra's 3.0 Primary too steep of a skill jump?

[Haze33E-1329]

@PVCPrincess-2622

i dont think ANY Sym main was outright angry at the removal of lock on

Besides the gamers with disabilties who played her because she had a lock on weapon.

[PVCPrincess-2622]

i dont think even they were angry about the removal of lock on. If it had been changed from that to a wide frontal cone hitbox in exchange for 60-90-120 damage i think they would of been fine.

[Firellius-2695]

This is a big part of my problem with new M1.

@TTraw-2252

What are your guys thought on her aim intensity jump in her primary? was that fair? was that too much? git gud?

The skill leap is part of the problem. Her now having the weapon that is the most aim-dependent as opposed to the least aim-dependent is an awful rework design that just utterly rewrites an entire character. Compare to Raynor’s rework in HotS: Some depth was added, but he’s still easy to play, baseline, keeping the reworked version more consistent with his pre-rework version.

But the biggest issue for me is that her M1 is just flat-out garbage and struggles WAY too much to compare with 2.0’s M1. That M1 had its values and drawbacks and ultimately came out as a weapon that was widely considered underpowered. After the crippled wind-up time, the removal of auto-aim, the further increase of wind-up time due to sub-100% accuracy, the damage output of the new M1, in regular use, barely matches old M1.

Essentially, the weapon kept almost ALL of the drawbacks that were tacked onto it to balance out the lock-on, but lost the lock-on itself.

2.0’s M1

-1 Short range
-2 Abysmal damage maximum
-1 Wind-up
-1 No headshots/spike damage
+4 Lock-on

3.0’s M1

-1 Short range
-1 Low damage maximum
-2 Abysmal Wind-up
-1 No headshot/Spike damage
+???

It is just not good in the slightest. Comparatively range restricted heroes without wind-ups and with headshots tend to go well over 200 minimum. I think it’s 240 DPS for Tracer, and 250 for Reaper, and something similar for Torb’s shotgun. So why’s Symm stuck at 195 with a wind-up and no headshots?

[PVCPrincess-2622]

Only issue i had with 2.0 primary was the low damage on the first 2 levels. In Geoff’s post he said “there was no way to increase the damage potential without removing lockon” when i had never heard a fellow Sym main complain about her potential damage only the first two levels.

[Arcadium-11882]

@YellowNinja-11950

It was a very steep learning curve. In my opinion im still learning how to use it. My biggest issue with the beam is that its a zarya beam but symmetra doesnt have zaryas health or 16m beam range. I agree with most of the symm community who wants a hp buff.

It’s quite shocking to me that the ranges don’t at least match, tbh. Makes 0 sense.

[randalla-2674]

I know this thread is focused on her primary, even though I think Sym as a whole still suffers from a major identity crisis. Right now, she’s still this weird dps/defense/support hybrid, none of which she can fulfill very good.

As for her primary, honestly, its just such an UGLY and lazy design. This thin little tickle-stream just looks and feels awkward. Zarya already has beam that suits her playstyle and kit much better.

As I’ve suggested before countless times, Symmetra needs another PROPER rework. Blizz really need to rethink her entire kit and design. Take the core of what makes Symmetra cool and unique, and work with that.

For me personally, i’d say that would be providing unique ways for mobility or manipulating the environment through her “light magic”.

Something like creating teleporters, barriers, jump pads, walls or ramps for your team.

Naturally, her turrets have always stayed in her kit so far, and I honestly think that the current version of her turrets is a huge improvement, and probably the most successful aspect of her current rework. Being able to deploy them from range was a huge improvement.

Another strong theme with Symmetra is barriers, or shields. I’d love to see Symmetra return to a more supportive role. With a strong focus around manipulating, creating, or destroying shields and barriers. Blizz clearly wants her to be some kind of “shield-buster” as seen with her old orbs, and now with her crappy primary fire.

I mean, there gotta be a ton of cool ideas you can play around with shields and barriers. Along with keeping her turrets and “light magic” in her kit.

But yeah, going back to her gun, and more specifically her primary, its just bad. Bad, boring and uninspiring. Maybe make more like Moira and soon-to-be released Baptist. Where she has a supportive fire mode, and a damage fire mode. Where one for example fills up temporary shields, and the other does something with damage.

[DSPMankey-1515]

The issue with Sym’s new primary isn’t that it takes too much skill, it’s that it doesn’t efficiently convert skill to results. You can have flawless, 100% accurate tracking aim, and still find Symmetra’s beam woefully disappointing. Its range is pitiful, and the hero has no defensive abilities, no self sustain, and no mobility. Its time to kill is pitiful, giving many heroes the potential to kill Sym 2 or 3 times over before she has a chance of killing them.

Old Sym had these problems too (and unsurprisingly, her pick rate was pretty low), but people put up with them because at least her primary allowed easy access to her peak potential. With new sym, her peak potential has slightly increased, but the barrier players have to overcome to get there is gigantic. By the time you’ve got the skills to use her primary somewhat effectively, you could be playing somebody like Zarya or Tracer 500 SR higher up the ladder.

Basically, it’s not that they increased the skill required to use her, it’s that they didn’t proportionately increase the reward. Imagine if they buffed Hanzo’s headshot damage to 300, but also made bodyshots do no damage.

[TTraw-2252]

Reading all the posts in the thread makes me kind of disappointed that noone discusses the tickrate problem in the main post. This is the one of things that will only get addressed by the developers as the knowledge about it spreads wider. Seeing as it currently went rather ignored means that we’ll have lower chances of seeing it fixed.

Also something that I didn’t notice before, but on the graphs the names of the Y and X axises were in the wrong places. Surprised noone saw that. probably because noone read that part but ok.

It actually showed that 40% aim Symmetra did like 60% of her max damage potential, which doesn’t even make any sense. Oh well. Sorry about that. It’s fixed now. I hope