so its not elo hell. to call it such is misleading at best and misinformation at worst. all you do by calling it that is perpetuate the scapegoat mindset 80% of the community has.
edit: id be lying if I said i didnt think you were op. my bad
No problem. And thanks for the edit. Without it, I was going to be very confused and not sure how to respond.
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Elo Hell is whatever rank “YOU” cannot adequately adapt to and climb through.
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the problem with a definition of elo hell is that it only exists for people that are slightly better than where they belong.
Elo hell definitely exists for a player only 300 points better than his teammates that gets unlucky with the randomness in gold and below. But if they get 500+ points better then gold and below just becomes a place to stomp noobs and they will climb even when their team is playing 3 times worse than the enemy team despite being favored.
So elo hell doesn’t exist in the sense of some unescapable trap. however, low ranks do suffer bad luck + lack of consistency in teammates at low ranks when they are supposed to be getting favored matches.
So they get a favored match but their teammate underperforms and then they lose, so they lose massive mmr and go down further and further and further.
It’s honestly terrible for the player, but if they just focus on themselves, someday they will be so much better than that whole tier that they will stop playing with such inconsistent teammates.
That said, in league of legends I never got to that point. I never felt the matchmaker was consistent enough, so I would jump around my actual skill level by 5-8 levels.
Similarly lower rank players in OW can be at the mercy of the matchmaker and jump between silver and mid-gold, which is quite the variance in skill level.
From plat on it starts to get more consistent about basic aim, and then from high plat on your teammates finally stop using ults like morons every game and just occasionally mess up their ults. I personally hate the 2500-2800 range in OW the most despite carrying through it easily. I just can’t stand checking ults between fights and being able to predict with 100% accuracy which teammates will waste their ults and how much more I must do to carry the game. And knowing that arguing with them beforehand doesn’t help either because “they know best”
so you just ensure that every ult of yours gets value and increase the # of ults you get. Enemy team has similar players wasting the ults on their side, so if you play well, you climb anyway and get out eventually.
Anyway I’m digressing. Each tier has its own behaviors that are consistent and inconsistent. Even silver might be consistent in having less of the players getting lost on the map than a bronze game.
But blizz can’t be expected to deal with the level of randomness of players who are learning the basics of the game. The best they can do is add in a performance factor like they had in OW1, something I think helps the bronze-gold range a lot.
This is all very cute. But I think I have to correct myself and reset a little.
Let’s get back to the dev posts points.
Less predictable matches in lower mmr games.
And from part 1, newer players causing losses.
I just feel sorry for folks in bronze and silver ….
I mean its always been the case right?
I say this mostly because at low elos most people dont have the mechanics, or game sense for playing overwatch. And with 9 more people in the game, its amplified.
Trickling (may fall under game sense) is what i believe would be the biggest mistake being made in those ranks.
Theres just too much chaos in lower ranks to expect consistency in the matches.
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You should also quote the part where they very politely and professionally mention the reason someone is hardstuck is because said individual has encountered a very common situation called skill issue aka. being bad aka. get better.
the way the dev blog is using “less predictable” and the way folks are interpreting it are very different. there’s the confidence level of the matchmaker - a newer player has less data to draw from, and therefore their wins and losses are going to cause bigger swings in the MMR because the confidence is low. more games = more data = higher confidence that will reduce those swings as time goes on. that’s what the OP seems to be referring to when they mention “it’s not rank, it’s level”
however, the dev blog explicitly says “lower rank”, not level, and that’s true too. a non-OW example: i played poker with some chums in college. i understood (loosely) the rules of poker, but i mostly played on intuition and considered the evening a fun way to spend 20 bucks and a few hours. after a couple weeks, i was uninvited to the game, because the more serious poker players in the group hated the unpredictability my presence introduced into the games.
players who don’t have as good an understanding of optimal gameplay are going to make unpredictable swings that pay off - not because it was the right decision but because they did it in a match where their opponents couldn’t capitalize on the mistake in the same way it would be punished more consistently in a higher ranked match. so the team with the MMR advantage that is favoured to win is more likely to be incorrect at the lower ranks because those players will be trying wild swings that pay off more often, and that can’t be accounted for in model.
eta: of course while i was typing this novel, gonpachiro said it much faster and more clearly, ha!
Since we have zero clue how the MM works and they are not going to tell us… I think there are 3 issues that were never addressed until now :
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Metal ranks were unknown outcomes. The majority of the population is metal and as such the game was not great for many players since the MM was adding in players that should not have been there ( new accounts starting in plat for example. )
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MMR was not used by role and instead by account leading to large skill gaps being present in the matches.
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Blizz already admitted they had a probable winner/loser teams to challenge you for a rank up. That would be by definition fixing.
Supposedly 1 & 2 issues are either resolved or minimized by next weeks patch.
Who would have thought that this would have been misinterpreted.
“LESS predictable” is useless unless we know HOW MUCH less. Someone who is 5’11" is “taller than average” the same way someone who is 7’7" is taller than average. The fact remains that if you belong higher rank, you’ll climb. I’ve taken bronze accounts where I threw the placements or they were a friend’s account who stopped playing and had “old MMR keeping them low” and skyrocketed them all to the same rank as my main.
Stop making excuses and get better at the game.
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Trueskill is microsofts matchmaker.
Blizzard doesn’t use it.
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This is not true. I just had an example of going 7-0 to go from Gold 5 to Gold 4 and then immediately after went 7-3 to not rank up at all and stay Gold 4. How does that work?
How much rank you gain depends upon your wins/losses and the MMR of the teams you play against. So, a win against a team stacked with top 500 players when a player is currently ranked Plat will result in a larger rank gain than a win against Plat players.
If your MMR and your rank are currently aligned, you should expect smaller gains/losses in rank than if your MMR and your rank are currently misaligned. This is more true if the system is confident in your current MMR (or, more precisely, if the system is confident in your current MMR it will be more likely to raise/lower your MMR less than if the system is less confident in your current MMR, resulting in smaller jumps in MMR used to make your matches- meaning that if you have been playing in Gold for years, the system will tend to match you against Gold players, whereas on a new account, the system might start matching you against higher and higher players quickly if you go on a win streak).
So, in your case, if your MMR is somewhere around Gold 5/4, you would be matched with players in that range (on your team and the enemy team) and your rank gains/losses would be relatively small. It may also be that one or more of your wins were against teams that you were favored to beat (resulting in smaller rank gains from those matches) and one or more of your losses were against teams that you were favored to beat (resulting in larger rank losses from those matches). In any case, you are probably close to another rank up after going 7-3 and if you win more than you lose in your next set of games you will probably rank up (though my guess is it wouldn’t be more than one rank, because your MMR and your current rank are probably fairly closely aligned).
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I think it was when he still had the little green screen desk on Kings Row. I’d have to scrub through 100’s of hours of content to find it haha.
This is exactly what Elo hell is. An elo that should be easy to climb through but is far more troublesome than it should be.
Some unranked to GM streamers god stuck in gold/plat for a while lol. It was posted about here on the forum.
Absolutely they should, but many of them don’t and it takes a lot longer than it should.
I have been as low as rank system go so i perfectly understand what this means. It doesnt mean its elo hell. Games in lowest ranks can be very different because people there do often incredibly dumb stuff andalmost never group up. This often create highly one sided games, because you cant obviously overcome 4 people alone. Its not often skill related thing and its more decision making of players causing this high unpredictable games.
You would be suprised how many times I have seen far better mechanicaly skilled people loose just because they did very dumb things anddidnt group up with their team.
So yes you will get less predictable games lower, but good thing is that these games can be affected by you quite a lot with just playing right and grouping up.
Where did you read this exactly? Can you quote?
Is this supposed to be related to what you said above? Because i dont see how. They said that they start new players lower than they used to so only players who have higher chance to get new players are bronze and silver ranks. Unless new player is decent right away, then its gold probably.
How often you get new player? Depends on rank, in bronze and silver often I would say, as you rank up less and less with diamond not having new players at all probably, plat rarely.
About second part, most games in middle of ranks in you dont group up with different ranks on purpose is very well balanced, so there is no favored team. Difference in shared MMR wouldbe unsignificant.
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That’s not what elo hell is though.
Elo hell is when you end up in a rank that you should easily win games in, but you they are far more difficult to win than they should be, even if you are a skilled player.
This makes sense
This does not.
Elo hell has nothing to do with games you “should” win. Elo hell is about a player’s inability to break through their peek performance which is preventing them from climbing into the next rank.
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You have misunderstood. They mean that low bronze games are more unpredictable than gold/GM matches. Which is perfectly understandable, as the skill variety in low bronze will be greater than at any other level.
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There’s a very simple solution to this. Get better at the game. By this logic everyone’s elo hell is their limit determined by their peak skill level and that is not what elo hell is.