Crit/burst armor needed

the TTK for widow is at its peak since launch.
At release, Widow had 150 (x2) damage, which means that 200 dmg was already achieved with a low percentage (33%) of the charge. In addition, the charge was only 0.75 which made it even faster.
Since then it has become 120 (x2.5) (the 300 dmg is retained) and 0.9s charge.
Mathematic results:
the fastest TTK (200 HP) was 0.75 s. Now it is 1.1. Most of the time at smooth 1 sec.
So much for that.
In addition, Widow and Hanzo each have one of the longest TTK in the entire game (for two consecutive kills).
In comparison: Soldier 76 can (only crits aswell) do 342 dmg in one second. So he has a TTK of only 0.58 sec.

If you want to reduce the TTK (based only on the main fire), Hanzo and Widow are among the very last ones you will touch. Even with abilities, Widow would still be at the bottom of the list.

Please don’t jump down this rabbit hole. This is a forewarning. There will be words put into your mouth. Good luck

Well, that’s why it’s something that affects all forms of headshots.

Which of course, also means that the devs can fine tune the headshots to the individual hero, without worrying about the synergy issues.

A lot of the whole reason for doing 5v5 in the first place is to dismantle synergy issues.

Anti-crit debuff would be nice.

I did the math for S76 and Widow (with 20%) and the effects would be practically only + 0.1s (for both) on the TTK on it. But it would be very bad for Widow. Even at 100% the DMG would be a maximum of 240, which means that all 250 DPS are definitely no longer a oneshot and Hanzo could only oneshot 200HP heroes at 100%. (250 * 0.8 = 200)

The biggest problem would be that you would make crits less valuable and reduce the difference between bodyshot and crit and beam / explosive weapons would be even stronger (if the -20% is only deducted from crits)

If you really want to increase the TTK in the game, the most sensible option would be either to enlarge the HP pools (+ 50HP for everyone) or a damagenerf for everyone.
But definitely not by a -20% for crits

Well, here’s what I had in mind:

But you forget one thing with the 1.6 multiplier.
Doomfist, Reaper, (Mei), McCree, Symmetra and Torb, all of which have more than 200 HP.
Both Widow and Hanzo are said to have the power to oneshot all non-tanks.
Widow in particular has had 300 dmg since the beginning and there would have been a number of possibilities to nerf it, but it was decided to nerf / keep other things weak in order to keep this 300 dmg.
Compared to Hanzo, Widow would have to get buffs on SMG, VM and Health in order not to disappear in Oblivion. Why play Widow when Hanzo has the same firepower but more survivability, flexibility and strength in the kit.


  • 200hp
  • 15 dmg (smg)
  • 1.5 ° (smg)
  • two placeable mines and 100 dmg (VM)
  • Grapple CD on 10sec
  • Ult: Damage boost by 50% (widow only)


  • 200 hp
  • 2 ° (smg)
  • 100 dmg (VM)
  • maybe Grappe CD on 10 sec

Otherwise widow becomes practically obsolete.

In addition, the multiplier should generally be reduced to x1.6, otherwise Widow and Hanzo could easily be replaced with Ashe and others, as is already the case sometimes.

Aside from that whole, substantially less barriers, and Push maps having gigantic sightlines.

That said, they could drop Hanzo HP down to 175hp, if that would help.

Osoblet in terms of comparable options.
Hanzo and Ashe are both far more flexible than Widow.
Widow is currently only played because of the 300 dmg shots.
If Widow only made 200 Dmg, she would practically not be played, and would be in a smaller niche than Symmetra or even Bastion.

Ashe can do 300 dmg in two shots and would be much faster than Widow.
It takes Ashe 0.65sec between two shots
Widow 1.4 between two 100% shots
If widow and Ashe could shoot at the same time, Ashe could shoot 3 times while Widow hasn’t even fired her 2nd shot.
Ashe: 0.0; 0.65; 1.3
Widow; 0.0; 1.4

Ashe could have 450 DMG in 1.31 seconds while Widow would only have 200 dmg.

I see it as a common problem that practically every attempt to nerf Widow occurs mostly without considering the alternatives to Widow.
To nerf the 300 dmg to 250 or even 200 it would have a serious impact on many other heroes and would also force many nerfs and adjustments on other heroes.

I mean the goal here is to give the alternatives to Widow a fighting chance.
Barriers are the main thing keeping widow in check, and barriers are getting greatly reduced in OW2.

Additonally, the issue also relates to the alternatives to Widow+Hanzo+Ashe.
There’s 14 other DPS in the game. And they should be made irrelevant because of a lack of barriers.

Would be great if healing wasn’t so high you were forced to use burst or 1 shots just to kill heroes since any sustain damage is just immediately healed within half a frame.

It used to be balanced. What screwed it over was that strong AoE healing got to become very common.

Bionade Ana. Baptiste. Moira.

If your healing a unit, them healing off your damage should be insurmountable honestly. Its a 2v1 situation. Ana pockets that tank, your a S76. For a team game, a person shouldn’t be able to ‘outskill’ a 2v1. They should realize they are outclassed, and form up with the rest of their team and tackle the fight 2v2.

I’ll probably always be against too much burst damage because it flies in the face of teamwork where a situation should feel impossible to tackle alone. You should feel outclassed and want to work with others. But, that’s the only thing I want.

With multiple attacking it should be hard to outheal enemy team damage

I think this should be the difference between shield health and armor health, beyond just shield health regenerating over time.

Armor screws with small damage packets, mitigating many smaller blows, but does little against burst.

Shield health should work the other way. The simplest idea I’ve had is to make shield health “fail”, the same way shields in Star Trek do. If you take a hit that exceeds the amount of shield health you have, it strips all of your shield health but doesn’t directly damage your HP. Only the next shot would do that, allowing you to dodge or use cover to regen your shield health. So long as you have even 1HP of shield health, it forces the enemy to land at least two hits to kill you.

To keep it balanced, you’d probably need to cap the effectiveness at some point. So D.Va self destruct still kills everybody, or Junk tire, for example. Maybe keep a Widow head shot in that group. But something like Soldier’s Helix Rockets or Junkrat nades/mines could only chunk you, and force him or his team to follow up.

As an aside, I’d also change Immortality field to work the same way. The drone gives everybody in the radius a single, regenerating charge of shield health while they are inside so that they can’t be burst down by a single attack, but can be overwhelmed by focus fire. Not sure how necessary that one is, but I feel like fits the field medic Baptiste idea better than a drone that somehow prevents death in any form. But maybe that’s just me.

Because things actually need to die in this game. Favoring aggression keeps the attacking and defending sides balanced.

I remember a while ago someone making thread talking about making Shield health do something like this. But it would only be shield health and not temporary shield health.

But this would only affect 4 heroes Sigma, Symmetra, Zarya, and Zenyatta. It would be great for Zen and Sym but probably too strong on Sig and Zarya.

Doubt it would happen, low ttk is goal here.

reducing the headshot damage of a hero like widowmaker where the main and almost single trait of the character is to deal high burst damage at further ranges specifically by headshots sounds like a terrible idea. that would be like making tracer have 200hp but only 1 blink, it simply just kills the character and entire feel of it.

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Did you do the math of 1.6x times 125?

yes any character with armor, in a single meter of the falloff range or a shot being 99% charge will survive. it will also make widow completely useless against tanks and will a lot of times just favor more body shots. you’re trying to take away one of the few mechanically skillful elements in overwatch from a character that almost only gains value from that single element of skill.

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You could just alternate headshot mechanics.

Widowmaker probably should not have x2.5 crot unless she gets 100% charge.

Hanzo should not have x2.0 crit when he randomly tosses arrow across whole map.

And what you want is essentially what Brig gave. It was pure nightmare