Oh so you’re advocating for a different way of banning things. It seems interesting. Mb for misunderstanding.
No worries. Hardly anybody takes the effort to understand that chart, so thanks for the effort
1 Like
Yeah no.
Thats not how it works at all and you are proving my point.
Supports are the ones whos task is healing the team (and providing utility), not the other way around.
And Tanks can “tank” when they are dead?
As far as DPS goes, sure Torb’s turret (or Sym) can do DPS when he is dead but … pretty much DPS can’t kill people when dead either.
Thats 100% on you.
Again, just like a DPS that can’t play hitscan for their lives and Pharah has an easier time than she should, thats on them.
Supports, for some weird reason, think they are over this “Switch to counter” mechanic but spoiler alert: They are not.
The problem is that they are so busted on value returns per skill invested that many times, its not even necessary lol.
No, it isn’t. You’re playing the game the way it’s designed to be played if you’re counter-swapping. Each hero both acts as a counter to another hero, and can be countered by another hero. Knowing which hero counters which, and swapping to that hero to gain advantage shows that you know more about the game than most other players. If you can play that hero well? All the better.
Any scrub/noob can one-trick in this game. Attempting to muscle through a counter even when you’re likely feeding because you refuse to swap due to your ego doesn’t show that you’re a pro-level player. All it shows is that you’re as dull as a sandstone axe and that you put your own ego above your team.
Yes, it is weird. It’s like playing rock-paper-scissors before the game, except that it’s ranged-brawl-dive.
Except that’s exactly how it works.
You will get absolutely nowhere without your support backing you up. We are the ones who decide whether you live or die. So yeah, go ahead, don’t protect your support, see how far you get. Then when they’re dying constantly to the enemy Sombra, you can watch yourself fold over and over again like a sheet of 1-ply toilet paper because you were too busy trying to stroke your ego than help the two most vital members of your team.
In terms of importance, it goes Support > Tank > DPS.
If your support is dead the tank and the DPS go nowhere. If the tank is dead, depending on how skilled the DPS and Support are you ‘might’ be able to hold ground, but that varies wildly depending on skill levels. If the DPS is dead, ehh, you might not get as many kills, but two supports focusing on healing a tank can keep that tank up through almost anything provided the tank is competent and not trying to leeroy off into Narnia for an extra kill to pad the scoreboard.
Lot of yapping from a noobie
1 Like
even better when the answer to some is “git gud” for others it is “pick this hero and they will lose or have to swap unless they aren’t smurfing 6 ranks lower”
but you also get complains feom exactly these heroes, that they dont braindead counter all heroes anymore. 
It’s “willful ignorance,” but you fail to provide anything that gives the game depth outside of its counterplay.
You practice your mechanics to get better aim, and you think critically when engaging with your team to improve your gamesense. These things are all done for what? To counter the enemy… 
All other depth is minicule in comparison.
I’m just going to respond to both of these with this
Stand your ground against anti-nade without a Kiri. Stand your ground against Mauga when playing hog. Stand your ground against Sombra as Widow. Reaper against Winston. Pharah without a hitscan… and the list goes on and on and on…
Specialists do not work in OW2* and are ineffective because they took away a very important pillar (offtank) that kept counterpicking in check. Rock, paper, scissor gameplay didn’t exist in OW1. This whole counterpicking thing started in 2 and has only ever been excerbated since its inception.
Dude, just stop bwahaha. This is the most blatant lie I’ve ever seen on here. 
We have 6+ years of data to prove this is false. You can literally spend 20 seconds searching for any content creator who’s ever played OW1 in the past 6 years and immediately see that the overwhelming majority of them were specialists who stuck to the characters they were good at. They did this because being exceptional at one character was far superior to being average at many when it came to competing.
1 Like
its rock paper siscors, where rock survives to hits from paper, paper can’t miss and if you don’t hit Center with scissors they break.
1 Like
It isnt, and its factual. You can argue all you want but what you said is false. And I will repeat it again (because you went on a pivot adding other things):
And that doesn’t mean that under ANY circumstances, a DPS or a Tank can NEVER help a Support. I never said that, don’t assume that.
No.
In terms of importance, Tanks are the prio, then Supports and then DPS.
The issue is that is way harder to kill Tanks when Supports are alive, so distracting the Supports (or killing them, sure) yields more advantage than distracting/killing DPS etc.
Your next paragraph is just straight up wrong (outside of Bronze I guess):
If your team is dying and the enemy is not, no matter who starts dying first, you are not holding the point.
Sure you will die faster or slower depending on the roles available but that means nothing. Like really, means nothing, sorry 
It is not on me to provide you with an exhaustive list about every part of the game that contributes to it’s depth. By saying “counterplay is depth” you are either simplifying what depth is thus making it a shallow experience, or are over generalizing what counter play is. Which is ignorance.
And your response doesn’t address either, merely repeats my phrasing without understanding what it means.
They didn’t work in OW1 either. Sometimes players could one trick in OW1 when the value that provided outweighed the perceived value of what swapping off would give. This is also true of OW2. Doesn’t change that you’re fighting against how both games were built.
We also have plenty examples of competitive OW where people swapped when their fav hero/comp wasn’t working.
Only in your own mind.
We’re done here.
Not really but live your dream 
This is just not true. Overwatch didn’t even have enough heroes to justify swapping in the first place.
Or it’s just pretty darn hard to come up with a hero concept that isnt at least a huge problem for one of the other 40 other heroes in the game…
Hell any game that involves pinning different heroes against each other suffers from this (doesn’t even have to be an fps)
As someone else has mentioned on here…the only way to eliminate countering is to make the heroes so damn similar that you may as well not have heroes anymore
2 Likes
It is Devs fault we are in this situation cause of their dum dum decision to force us into 5v5, this wasnt as bad in 6v6 when you had a 2nd tank to cover for any weakness a counterpick caused
Cry me a river. I get Bastions into my Rein all the time and you know what I do? I swap to D.Va, Orisa or Zarya. You can counterswap the the counterswap, you know. That’s the point of this mechanic - to adapt to enemy team. If they swap to counter you don’t just sit there and let them, counter back and negate this “huge impact”.
And then they counterswap your counter, making the game a boring counterswap cycle
Once more for the people in the back 