Now the real question is, what happens if they counterswap after 1 fight (its usually ehat they do anyways) sure they wouldve lost progreas rowards the perk but i doubt it would be much after 1 fight, they could swap and then become even stronger counterswap with perks enabled
We really need to stop with the blatant ignorance on this site.
No one says counterswapping should be removed entirely. No one says counterswapping never existed. The entire point is that the move to 5v5 and solo tanking has made counterswappingâs strength, tripled. Especially against the solo tank.
So then the game becomes less about HOW you play and more about WHAT you play. THAT is the issue. Itâs free value by just going to spawn and clicking H, and with little to no effort. You just gain an immense automatic advantage for doing nothing.
Like Iâm sorry but itâs boring for me to win one singular round as doom (I could be doing nothing in that round too) and for the enemy team to walk out next round on hog cass sombra. Or brig ana. Or orisa. It just is. No one tries to outplay anymore, they just swap. It isnât engaging and the ability to counterplay that is SO much lower now because the effectiveness of counterswapping in 5v5.
No, this was NOT a problem in 6v6. The ability to outplay counterswaps in 6v6 is much higher. There is a reason the discussion around counterswaps and the feeling of ârock paper scissorsâ gameplay has exploded since OW2 released.
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Itâs fine to have an opinion. However you should acknowledge it IS an opinion and others would argue thatâs just part of the game and simply knowing and applying counters is engaging gameplay to them. Especially showing proficiency in many different characters VS forcing a one character and done playstyle.
There is NO character that allows this. While the matchups may change, you still have to apply gameplay to get that advantage. A Zarya player who thinks theyâre just gonna wreck DVA because they are Zarya is going to have a rude awakening against someone who knows how to sting and move with DVA or who leverages their teams advantages instead of directly confronting them.
OK⌠so lets bring back 6v6 and advocate for that instead of complaining about people leveraging one of the more powerful tools they have that has always been a core part of the game?
Hot take: counterswapping should never have been a thing. No character should have the ability to negate other.
Swapping is more enjoyable when it comes to âhm it seems like iâm not doing well with this characterâ or âPerhaps if I picked another character Iâd go better with my teamâ, not âDear god Chumbos is running rampant, better pick the Anti-Chumbos quickly and wait until they sawp to the Anti-Anti-Chumbosâ
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How do you make counterswapping not a thing in a hero shooter?
The only way to make counterswapping not a thing is to give everyone the same ruleset and take away what makes heroes unique. You have to remove strengths and weaknesses to not make some picks better against certain heroes over others. At that point youâre not playing a hero shooter anymore.
Take the Zarya pill, unless they can dive, its a free win.
Itâs not so much that counter swapping is bad itâs the reward thatâs too high. You shouldnât be able to turn a tank into a walking death waiting to happen. Tanks should exist while their team does you shouldnât be able to ignore the team and just melt the tank because you have 5 counters to the one character on the map at a time. Itâs bad design.
It was one thing with two tanks, but by design 5v5 (which I actually like) demands that there is a hero that is the keystone. That means that keystone needs to be able to stand against enemies so long as it has allies. You need to make the other heroes the must answer but with one tank only one hero is and therefore the easy way out is to go all in on killing that hero. Which is the opposite of what a tank should be. It should be a reward to draw attention.
Itâs okay to have weaknesses and strenghts. The game shouldnât revolve around them in the sense that a weakness totally shuts down a character against another, however. What is needed is the ability to counterplay certain things without the need of swapping the entire character.
The game had counterswapping before, but it certainly wasnât like it is now.
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The community and developers railed hard against one-tricks. You can still get banned for playing Symmetra or Torbjorn too much. The lack of a subtank makes it harder to mitigate direct counters, too.
This is a true statement. It is also a true statement that it was a bit easier for tank players to adapt in 6v6 without necessarily swapping. The effectiveness of swapping in 5v5 is strengthened making it much harder to avoid having to swap yourself if that isnât your ideal gameplay loop.
I like both 6v6 and 5v5. But 5v5 definitely forces me off my main more than I had to in 6v6. Because in 6v6, my co-tank did take some of the pressure off me and I could play around counters easier.
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But how do you make that happen?
Like, how does Pharah get to exist without hard counters like hitscans also needing to exist? Same with Rivals, how do Iron Man/Storm get to exist without Punisher/Iron Fist also existing to hard counter them?
You canât have unique rulesets for characters without the capability to deal with them AKA hard counters/counterswapping
Itâs entirely 5v5 fault. Who would have thought that it would turn out like this (any person with a brain present)
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That is what people are advocating for??
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Donât sound like it. This is just âone tricking is hard nowâ.
Most of what Iâm hearing is âI hate counterswapping as a mechanicâ.
Yes weâre getting there, but we started with this.
Counterswapping is a crutch for the weak-willed whose ego canât bear to lose a match.
Theyâre getting bowled over when they donât swap because they never learned from their mistakes. They just swapped characters and won because OW as it is, is a broken game with severe issues.
Which clearly the devs agree with or we wouldnât be constantly getting radical changes to the foundation of the game.
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I think that was only right at the beginning when nobody knew how to play yet. Counterswapping has always been an important part of the core design, which is why anyone can swap at any time. They even let you keep some ult charge to incentivize it.
I donât mind swapping, because then I get to flex my flex skills. People can try to counter me all day, but I play more heroes than them.
Clearly you canât read
In OW1, it was more to swap out of a bad situation, rather than to hard counter a specific person on other team. Exception being to deal with a pharah and widow, which was a problem in itâs own right.
OW2 took hard countering, and the ease in which you could do this, to new heights, and with a forced uber tank, hard countering this role became how you win. And it sucks.
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I didnât really care too much about counterswaps in early 5v5, since things had little enough HP that I could exploit mistakes and there were more windows of opportunity in outplaying them, even if I was technically countered.
Buffing everybodyâs HP is what made it worse.
Even still, I never had to swap as much in 6v6. If I wanted to play Zarya or D.Va, I could play them into anything so long as my other tank existed.
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Why are you swapping if not to play a more effective character for the situation? Swapping is swapping, the only reason youâd be doing it in a way thatâs not for countering is if you were just bored