Could we acknowledge that aim is a skill?

OW dps heroes have good abilities despite being aim reliant.

I think the issue is that the game isn’t built around high skill vs low skill. It’s built around team comps and hero swapping.

The game is built with counters in mind. In order for counters to be effective, they have to be good at what they do, and have a fundamental advantage over who they counter.

However, at the same time, Blizz is trying to make all heroes equally balanced. They’re trying to make it so that easy and hard heroes alike have situations in which they excell.

Equal balance of differently skilled heroes + counterswapping = easy heroes countering hard heroes in a considerable amount of situations.

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This couldnt be more true.

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I’ve seen both. I’ve seen “Go play CoD/CSGO XD” here WAY more whenever anyone mentions hating dying to something that took zero effort or forethought. I’m too lazy to link a bunch of threads with stuff like this, but just search “CoD” “Call of Duty” or “CSGO”. I don’t see people here who like aim telling everyone to “go play LoL if u wanna moba xd”. :man_shrugging:

Personally, I don’t care about any characters combat capability atm at all…Well, cept maybe Hanzo. I mean hell, I know exactly what every character is going to try to do, so I let them try to do it or I kill them before they can, or gank em, or just don’t engage lol, and if I die whatever. I can however see why others despise stuff like Moira/Brigitte (even tho I like playing Moira, I’m not gonna pretend it’s remotely challenging in any way lol).

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Abilities is one thing, but to ensure they must require aim is just too unrealistic with what we already have.

By your logic and ideas for the game. The only heroes that would still be left in the game would be.

Offense: Tracer, Genji, Mccree, Doomfist, Sombra, Reaper and Doomfist.
Defense: Hanzo & Widowmaker.
Tanks: Zarya & Roadhog
Support: Ana & Zenyatta.

Congrats, 13 out of 27 heroes are in the game. It was clear from the get go that its not going to be entirely aim reliant for everyone, so it can branch out to a wider audience. It relies on counterpicking and strategy to work as a team.

And Im pretty sure youve seen from the recent Widow threads that counterpicking is what helps balance things out. If it wasnt for counters, shields and barriers, you think people are complaining now? They’d want her to be removed because you can get shot down instantly.

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You’re right, but when Tracer is literally the must pick DPS of everything over diamond because you need an aimbot to consistently take her out…

Tracer destroying people who can’t aim isn’t an issue. She’s destroying people who can aim, regardless of their ability to.

If a character is easy to use, they should be similarly easy to predict and exploit. Part of the fun of Overwatch is that you can carry the brunt of a win and your own improvement on just smart strategy, good decisions, and creativity irrelevant of the skill thresholds of any individual hero. So if you’re a high skill hero and Winston is constantly going “YEET!” on your face, the great thing is you have an opportunity and full control to address that regardless. Similarly, low skill heroes can excel by using these skills to render irrelevant the aiming mechanics of high skill ones. No amount of time on Widow will make her be able to shoot through walls. So if I’m hard to hit because I’m positioning myself behind cover while still keeping hold of the objective, either reposition yourself or press H to Sombra me to death.

This is like, the video game equivalent of racism. But instead of skin color, you’re judging people by what they play and how it measures up to your standards.

But that’s not the beautiful part of it. The beautiful part is your insurmountable inability to actually hear your own stereotyping. At this point it is your only out; you have so many people disagreeing with you that the only means of driving your point forward is to stop thinking of them as people.

Here’s what everyone who reads your original post actually sees:

What made Overwatch a booming success was not the FPS genre. It was its large diverse playstyle in spite of the FPS genre. And the fact that every hero brings about a different playstyle, allowing many different types of people to enjoy the game.

Let’s take Mercy as an example. Mercy is not a hero that requires a whole lot of aim-based skills to play. She’s more about prioritizing targets and understanding that you can only do one thing at a time. What she adds to the game is forgiveness.

Forgiveness makes the game easier, but not in the traditional sense. You still have to aim and actually kill your opponent, but she allows you more shots. If you’re a bad player, you’ll get killed again after being Resurrected. And I should know, I’ve pocketed a lot of guys who still couldn’t kill his single opponent with me in tow for 30 seconds.

Every hero in the game brings something different to the table, and they all require different kinds of skills. But if you start putting some heroes in some kind of special box that’s supposed to be better than everyone else—then that will be the death of the game.

Every match will become about them and the absence of those players will be the failing of a team. People will start feeling like they can’t win if they can’t play Widowmaker, and that will drive away over at least half the player base (who, according to statistics, can’t play Widowmaker).

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I get your sentiment but don’t.

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I’m not really sure that’s possible with a mace. At least her E should be a skill shot.

PTR Symmetra looks a pretty good design direction, though I have yet to play her properly.

You listed Doomfist twice.
Also Doomfist is the worst designed hero so far.

Mei and Bastion are also aim reliant. Bastion is the most accurate rapid fire hero for once.

You could have just nerfed Tracer slightly then. Like +2s on recall should have been a decent nerf.

Brigitte on the other hand was a bad idea, it created a much bigger issue than it “solved”.

Whatever your stance on doomfist is, he IS still considered aim reliant as well.

You think people wont stop clamoring about nerfs for them and the removal of them?

“OMG BASTION IS SO EZ. Just m1 + cursor! SO EZ. He can self heal and shoot so much dmg?! DELETE”
“OMG MEI IS SO ANNOYING. She can freeze you and stun you. I dont like being not able to do anything for 2s. REMOVE HER.”

They’ll complain about their abilities just as they would on Doomfist as well. Complaining that there is no way to combat them. But look what we have currently; heroes that CAN.

What’s wrong with recommending games that cater to his (presumed based on posts I’ve read) playstyle? You wouldn’t take a game like Borderlands and say “Well I don’t like loot-rng so remove it or it’s a poorly designed game.” It’s an integral part of the experience, the same way many heroes of varying skill levels and skill requirements is for Overwatch.

Never once did I or any else who recommended games straw man him. We’ve replied directly to what his criticisms of the game has been by mentioning games that cater more towards what he wants.

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Well, all the whining about Dive meta from people who weren’t even playing in a Dive Meta (Sub Masters people) didn’t fall on deaf ears. So they created a singular character to solve the “problem” that 95% of the playerbase wasn’t actually facing, but had no shortage of anecdotes about.

One character with low effort;high reward ratio being able to outright deter an entire coordinated strategy just with the fact that she exists in the character select screen is indeed bad design. But what’s done is done, Rally is busted and will always be busted lol, I think her combat capability is fine though, despite how simple it is. :man_shrugging:

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Well the OP is just another aim elitist who doesn’t consider supports nor tanks skillful. Because “supports and tanks are easy, they do not require skill”.

Feel free to disprove my argument I made earlier on this thread that you conveniently ignored about what is actually skill and then come back to me and tell to my face how players like Fissure “don’t work hard”.

But that would require you to change your whole outlook and acknowledge the fact that nope, you aren’t any better player than them just cuz you can click heads so I doubt you will.

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You complain about me stereotyping, then you stereotype me.

No one says aiming isn’t a skill. People say aiming isn’t the only IMPORTANT skill.

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No, that’s perspective. It’s what you sound like when you make these statements.

Stereotyping is when you put people in a box and then attack that box. Like if I were to say, “All Widowmaker mains are (bad thing),” like when you say “All support mains don’t work hard (except Ana).”

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I wouldn’t complain.
In fact Bastion would be both easier to counter, and more viable.

You definitely shouldn’t counter poorly designed heroes with more poor design.

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