Could a Single Rez be on Ult?

[BadWidowEU-2419]

She wasn’t

Nope. She was underpowered.

She was reworked because Ressurect was counter-intuitive to keeping people alive. It was more beneficial to let teammates absorbs ults, die and then Rez them to continue support from there.

Well as long as it isn’t hiding, what seems to be the problem? They are absorbing ultimates meaning once Mercy uses Resurrect her team already has an ult economy advantage. Also, absorbing ultimates is generally a good thing to do even without Resurrect. It puts your team in an advantageous situation for the next team fight.

[Deoxys-11110]

Okay but what if you could charge up more than one. Like cap your Rez charges at two or three? Maybe it like takes a little longer to charge each additional rez.

[SettsWiƒe-1836]

Please this, one single rez thats instant in exchange for losing everything else and keeping 50hps is a terrible idea. If shes going to have an instant solo rez with so many drawbacks I think she should atleast be able to charge it to a 3man rez. BUT If she uses it to rez 1 person it takes all her stacks

edit: OH and no Valkyrie, I really just dont ever want to see that ability again.

[Crazyshark1-2319]

Well as long as it isn’t hiding

That’s exactly what it was.

They are absorbing ultimates meaning once Mercy uses Resurrect her team already has an ult economy advantage

Does it not seem unfair for possibly up to three ults, which you have been painstakingly charging for the entire match and then set up an engagement that enabled their use, to be deleted by a button press that charges as fast as any one of those ults with less counterplay than Supercharger?

[Crazyshark1-2319]

I like Valkyrie. It just needs buffed.

[BadWidowEU-2419]

@Crazyshark1-2319

That’s exactly what it was.

@Titanium-1686

Moving onto “Hide and rez” …

“We think it’s wrong to tell a main-healing character to go off and hide somewhere and stop healing for some period of time.”

But it is fine for a main-damage character to go off and hide somewhere and stop dealing damage for some period of time, like many heroes currently do in preparation for an ultimate?

In actuality, you are right; just not for the reason you think you are. You are correct because hiding was maladaptive for the team’s chance of victory, and therefore was a bad way to play her. Allow me to explain this in an even more elaborate manner than my past few megaposts.

The success of a mass-Resurrection (4+ revived players) depended upon several factors:

• The Mercy’s ability to survive and execute the ability in the first place (the obvious one).
• The number of players alive on each team after the Resurrection.
• The number of available ultimates held by each team after the Resurrection (but primarily the enemy team).
• The shock value of Resurrect against the enemy (by far the most important factor for the post-rez fight).

The last factor is more important than the other two post-rez factors because it determines what other factors need to advantage the Mercy in order to have a good chance at a successful Resurrection. As the enemy team is given time to reorganize and fire their first attacks at the newly Resurrected team, they would already have a positioning advantage and the first shot… that is, if the team was expecting the Resurrection.

If the enemy team is expecting the Resurrection, they will have the post-rez advantages of the first shot and additional positioning time. Of course, this is a very bad situation to be in for the newly revived team, requiring some very strong advantages of their own to compensate and have a chance at winning the fight. In this case, they would need both the numbers advantage and the ultimate ability advantage.

If the enemy team isn’t expecting the Resurrection, then the Mercy could probably get by with either the numbers advantage or the ultimate advantage and still have a chance at winning, as the enemy team might not capitalize on their positioning and first shot opportunities as well as they should due to the shock value of Resurrect.

How does “Hide and rez” fit into all of this, you might ask? Hiding before the fight removes the possibility of having enough of those advantages against the enemy team in the post-rez fight, and therefore any chance of a victorious post-rez fight against any team of similar skill.

Hiding leaves the initial fight to a 5v6, the missing hero on the Mercy’s team being the main healer and primary source of sustain. Obviously, this is a huge advantage for the team of 6 in the first fight, allowing them to steamroll over Mercy’s team with likely zero casualties, and ultimate expenditures used only to counter any of the opposition’s ultimates. On top of this, the team of 6 also now collectively has 2000-3000 more ultimate charge from killing 5 players in addition to any healing dealt over the duration of that fight. Thus, it hands the ultimate ability advantage to the team opposing the Mercy.

The opposing team, assuming they are paying even the slightest attention to what is happening around them, would notice that the enemy is crumbling very easily for a supposed 6v6, raising suspicions as to whether or not the fight really is a 6v6, quickly leading to the realization that the enemy Mercy is missing from the fight. From this, only one conclusion could logically be drawn; she’s waiting to use Resurrect. There goes the ultimate’s shock value.

At this point, even if the team of 6 somehow managed to sustain 2 casualties in the initial fight, it won’t matter. If both teams entered the fight with the same number of ultimates, the team that does not have the hiding Mercy has at least two more ultimates than the other team (2000+ ultimate charge, Mercy’s team used Resurrect). One or two offensive ultimates is the absolute maximum a team needs to wipe a freshly-revived team when they are expecting the Resurrection, resulting in the revived team staring down the barrel of a gun they have no chance of avoiding.

In contrast, a Mercy who stays with her team keeps the fight at a 6v6, granting her team more sustain and forcing the enemy to expend ultimates to overpower them. Once the ultimates started firing, the mercy would distance themselves from the fight, evade, or take cover, laying down pistol fire or amplifying damage rather than attempting to heal those for whom healing would be useless. As a result, the enemy was less likely to realize that Mercy has Resurrect (the enemy was comparatively difficult to kill, removing the prompt to think about why they were crumbling easily in the first place), Mercy’s team was more likely to pick off a few enemies, and Mercy has successfully baited more ultimates from the enemy team. As a result, her team has more advantages and fewer disadvantages in the post-rez fight.

The only cost to staying with the team was an increased chance of being picked off before being able to revive the team, which just follows the same risk choice explained in the Resurrect section; if taking more controllable risks now helps to mitigate the high risk later, then taking those smaller risks now is safer than not in the long run.

Consequently, reviving a team after hiding typically resulted in a second wipe, while staying with the team until it was unsafe to do so was more likely to yield favorable results. That is why it was “wrong to tell a main-healing character to go off and hide somewhere” . It was a bad tactic, as it usually backfired.

Rather than letting the issue resolve itself by fixing the SR exploit that ultimately led to the tactic’s rise in the first place, the developers decided to remove Resurrect as an ultimate entirely. They changed the thing that wasn’t the problem, and ended up pissing off the playerbase.

Sound familiar?

Anyway, I’ve used this example many times before, but removing Resurrect as an ultimate because some players abandoned their team leading to a second wipe is equivalent to removing Rocket Barrage as an ultimate because Pharah players too often blew themselves up with it. There’s no need to intervene; the tactic will die out on its own, so long as the ranking system isn’t feeding it.

Ironically, the rework ended up only replacing one tactic of hiding with another. This time, however, the is no drawback to it, making the tactic beneficial. Valkyrie is best used by pressing Q and then flying the hell away, barely staying within beam range of the team. Doing this minimizes risk, but compromises no rewards. A Mercy playing closer to her team in Valkyrie is not helping her team any more than a Mercy 29 meters from her team, and is only exposing herself to enemy fire. Consequently, staying as far as possible from the fight for Valkyrie’s full duration is the way to go.

@Crazyshark1-2319

Does it not seem unfair for possibly up to three ults, which you have been painstakingly charging for the entire match and then set up an engagement that enabled their use

Using 3 ultimates at once is completely stupid and bad gameplay. In a way, mass Ressurect discouraged bad gameplay and promoted good gameplay. Also, if a team uses 3 ultimates at once, they should feel bad about themselves.

[Quest-11845]

Just a rapidly charging single rez could be a bit underwhelming. My main position is when it comes to how rez operates as a mechanic in this game that is should be 1 button press = 1 person rezzed. I’m down to consider anything that adheres to that.

[Crazyshark1-2319]

An interesting article but I will direct you to this part specifically:

Once the ultimates started firing, the mercy would distance themselves from the fight, evade, or take cover, laying down pistol fire or amplifying damage rather than attempting to heal those for whom healing would be useless.

Mercy removes herself from the fight in order to preserve herself. This is hiding, no matter how small it is in time.
You assume I mean Mercy is in no way part of the fight. No. She simply hides herself away when her team is about to die.
And, call me crazy, the article in question mentions the free ult-charge for the enemy “2000-3000” for simply letting the team die. Prolonging that stay would generate MORE charge as there is more health to chew through. It does not bring mention to this.

In a way, mass Ressurect discouraged bad gameplay and promoted good

As does single Ressurect. It promotes taking out the healers first lest an important target be revived and going in together rather than alone so you can remove more than one target. Would you call that bad gameplay?

Also I said “up to 3”. I do also recall a point in the OWL on Dorado Final point where 3 ults were used. Grav, High Noon(?), Blizzard. It was the Valiant on Offense I think? I don’t remember who was on defense though and I may be misremembering the whole thing.

[BadWidowEU-2419]

Mercy removes herself from the fight in order to preserve herself. This is hiding, no matter how small it is in time.

That’s not “Hide n Res”… That’s called common sense. Also, most other heroes do this. I mean, most of the time, you don’t see a Zen running towards an enemy team thats about to use ultimates.

She simply hides herself away when her team is about to die.

Sorry but that’s not “Hide n Res”.

Prolonging that stay would generate MORE charge as there is more health to chew through. It does not bring mention to this.

Go to the thread and reply to it then, asking about it.

As does single Ressurect

Okay? I’m specifically talking about ult stacking.

It promotes taking out the healers first lest an important target be revived and going in together rather than alone so you can remove more than one target.

Same as mass Resurrect but it was even more important to kill the Mercy because mass Resurrect ressed multiple allies and not just one.

Also I said “up to 3”. I do also recall a point in the OWL on Dorado Final point where 3 ults were used. Grav, High Noon(?), Blizzard. It was the Valiant on Offense I think? I don’t remember who was on defense though and I may be misremembering the whole thing.

Just because it was done in the OWL, does not make it good. Ult stacking is bad gameplay.

[Quest-11845]

That’s not “Hide n Res”… That’s called common sense. Also, most other heroes do this. I mean, most of the time, you don’t see a Zen running towards an enemy team thats about to use ultimates.

The difference is when Mercy does it she can then come back and undo her team mates deaths. No one else can. Ofc it’s common sense to stay alive in the face of ult storms for everyone.

[BadWidowEU-2419]

The difference is when Mercy does it she can then come back and undo her team mates deaths. No one else can.

Welll if it wasn’t a reason stated by Blizzard, I have no reason to believe or acknowledge that it is a bad thing when done by Mercy.

[Quest-11845]

“But the goal was to lessen the impact of resurrect overall on the game, and then also change Mercy’s play style so it was never wrong for Mercy to heal her teammates. We felt like we were in a situation — we had created a mechanic where a lot of times the correct thing for Mercy to do was stop healing, disengage, protect herself, and then res en masse. That was more effective than her going out and single-target healing one person. We felt like that was kind of broken gameplay…”

That’s from that venturebeat interview Aria made the video about so I’m sure you saw it.

This is the problematic element of 1 button press = 1-5 people being rezzed. This contradiction to the hero, the role, and the design of the game, is removed when rez takes place on a 1 button press = 1 person rezzed mechanic.

[sral94-2751]

Yes. Single rez should be the ult.
Valk should be an abillity.

That way she would work like the other healers.
Normal healing with a healing boost as an abillity (amp it up, grenade, orb)
And a ult that isn’t op nor boring.

[BadWidowEU-2419]

change Mercy’s play style so it was never wrong for Mercy to heal her teammates

Okay but how exactly is Mercy’s heals going to protect her team from incoming ultimates? A Mercy sustains her team until she can no longer do so.

[Crazyshark1-2319]

While Quest, here, has made a very strong point with evidence this was the philosophy of the developers (Something neither of us could really provide) I’m going to back out of this now so neither of us say something we’ll regret.
Have a nice day!

[Quest-11845]

Okay but how exactly is Mercy’s heals going to protect her team from incoming ultimates? A Mercy sustains her team until she can no longer do so.

Her healing alone isn’t supposed to. That’d be broken.

[BadWidowEU-2419]

Baiiii

[Crazyshark1-2319]

Baiiii

I need to use that in the future.

[BadWidowEU-2419]

Her healing alone isn’t supposed to. That’d be broken.

I honestly don’t understand that… If you are about to get wiped, the best course of action would be to disengage from the fight… Not stick around and try to heal your entire team with 60HP/s… Also, how is it broken? XC Can you explain that for me.

[Crusher55-11700]

So rez on a resource meter.

Like, here’s 30 hp onto everyone in the area or something.

Sounds like a worse version of Ana’s nade or Moira’s orb.