Competitive progress


#21

They should give “seasons” real, actual, meaning. Since placements clearly aren’t actually a fresh evaluation of your skills and a true placement.

Completely reset SR and MMR each season, or at least every 3-4 seasons or so.

People keep telling me to just make an alt and I’ll probably place gold/plat, and would likely peak midplat, but I really dont want to start a whole new account or have to pay when “seasons” already exist.


#22

The point is to try to improve as a player to climb out of that rank to a higher mmr.


#23

Not everyone can be GM, there are limits be they physical, hardware, temporal, locale, and so on that limit where someone can get to.


#24

I dont wanna ActiBlizz anywhere near my bank account. Personally I am unhappy they even on same planet.

My phone number could work tho.

Problem with ranked begins on predictions Jeff talked about. That people will jump from one hero to next during match so global SR would make sense. It would be your average preformance across heroes you played.

Thing is why you would switch hero if you can stick with one and simply outplay opponents. In that scenario flexing players were punished because their stats on various heroes were compared to stats of “non-switchers” and look rather bleak. Ergo system took them for worse players and gave less SR in case of win.

Still expcting similar preformance on variety of playstyles and roles is ludicrouse. It is one of those “what were you thinking” moments.

At least we know now they do have some idea how to approach it and introduce role SR. It would be bit better but not much. We still are dependant on how well as team we preform. With bunch of randos that might not even speak common language.


#25

A role queue along with role based SR would address this. If you are a complete 1 trick tank and cannot play anything but dva you’re going to lose more games due to no team synergy when you get paired with another 1 trick off tank. So you evolve or de-rank. But this also puts the power of ranking up into the hands of the person who wants to play tank; to rank up he has to learn to put play the tanks that he knows will be on the other side. This would apply across the board and you’ve made 1 step towards properly rewarding people for having a diverse hero pool.

Likewise, support players that want to DPS would be easily out played by supports on the other side that know what they are doing so they would derank and eventually you’d not see them anymore.

It’s really not a big reach to say someone placing in Diamond with junkrat doesn’t mean they can play Reinhardt or Ana at that level. When you have people on a team performing way below their level you no longer have competition.


#26

You have already said it: The system is not progressive.
It has to be grindable to some extend otherwise it is just pointless to continue playing after the placement matches.

This too. The game should give you a chance to show that you have improved compared to others without having to buy a new acc. All other games have rank reset at some point but not OW.


#27

This, again assumes 2-2-2 will always be optimal; and indeed always wanted. It doesn’t encourage diversity at all, when some heroes - especially in the Tank and Support roles can still be one-tricked.


#28

It doesn’t matter, if everyone is under the same 2-2-2 structure than other comps no longer become an issue and you don’t need to balance for them.

You are just throwing random problems out there and expecting role queue to fix all of them. You don’t fix drunk drivers with speed limits, but that doesn’t mean you throw away speed limits. Improvement is iterative it is very rarely absolute. Car safety systems don’t save all lives, but we keep working on making them better. My aim is to improve the quality of competitive matches; if someone only wants to play junkrat I don’t care, just don’t put 3 of them on my team.

If your goal is to abolish 1 tricks that’s a completely different conversation. I don’t quite get why you care. The 1 trick problem almost completely goes away (from a causing problems to the TEAM dynamic) if you improve matchmaking to avoid having a team full of incompatible 1 trick heroes.

The only way you get rid of 1 tricks is by putting very punitive measures into the game that steer people away. The punishment has to be severe enough that it outweighs the person’s desire to just do what they want. I think such a system would be tough to implement in a game.


#29

I’m not expecting role queue to fix anything, I don’t even want role queue. Certainly nothing that enforces 2-2-2; that’s not how the game was made.

I want a sense of progress from playing the game. SR can’t do that, SR won’t do that. Jeff said himself, the SR system is good for finding your rank, but it doesn’t do anything more than that and there’s no sense of progress once you’re there nor how to progress from that point.


#30

Skill based SR like csgo


#31

The point of a competitive game is to compete against those of a similar skill level with the goal towards iterative improvement. Gold weapons, cosmetics and all of that are nonsense and ancillary to the point.

It sort of sounds like the exp system is what you are looking for. What to you would signal meaningful progression?


#32

I mean, literally from the OP.


#33

Right, so you’re asking for what changes could be made to encourage people to continue playing. Several people now have pointed to Role Queue and you come back with “well that’s just now how the game is made”

You cannot ask for change and then complain that people are making suggestions which are different to how the game is now.


#34

Would role queue really add a sense of progress though? It may or may not improve the quality of some matches no doubt; but then we have LFG for players to opt into that, and certainly in the EU that has been an absolute failure.


#35

1.Blizzard could using hidden criteria (Not SR) select and award 10 players in every tier. Like best Bronze healer season 14.

2.In-game tournaments. Though literally 0 idea how to protect it from Smurfs.

3.Clan system and clan rankings.

  1. T500 OWL team. Using hidden criteria (Again, not SR and winrate), pick 6 players (222) and send them to OWL as representatives of the… losers lol

  2. Official stat reset option (Even paid one). It resets all your stats except for MMR (You run through placements to reevaluate your mmr), level and all in-game items.

I think many things could be and must be done.


#36

Yes, keep player desire in mind, it is a very important motivational factor that gets messed around with like it doesn’t matter in this game.

In the present situation if you want to get good at Rein right now how do you go about it? Learn in quickplay? (lmao). Get level 25 and go on into comp. You get a group with 5 DPS mains, one of them goes support begrudgingly and you have no off tank. Your heals suck because the healer is on Ana mostly DPS’ing. No one will stand behind your shield because they’re too busy fragging out; you get run over all game long, but DPS doesn’t care. Tracer has gold elim’s don’t you know!

Net result: DPS enjoyment is barely affected, support has had an abysmal game with awful stats trying to keep 1 tank up with no resources while chasing DPS players around who are yelling about how he’s a trash healer because he’s not able to keep everyone alive. The tank spent the whole match getting bullied and having no resources if he’s not already turned off the idea of tanking he will be when this happens a few more times. To top it all off the support and tank players would have lost the most SR because they were completely unable to perform their roles; what a well thought out system.

Tank quality and consistency will improve dramatically because tanks will be able to get groups with the support they need. There’s no shortage of people complaining about how much main tanking sucks right now.

The fundamental misunderstanding of what is needed to make a team work; combined with the incredibly selfish nature of gamers is what necessitates this structure.


#37

I don’t think that would change when the key advice thrown out by so many high levels players is stuff like this:

It’s not really about winning.


#38

You’re right, it’s not about winning. It’s about improving yourself. Winning is secondary.

But again, I feel we just have too differing of mentalities to ever come to an agreement. I have heard all of your arguments, and more, before. I still do not agree with them.

Edit: Apologies, I just realized you quoted me from a different thread. I haven’t read through enough of this thread to comment. Again, sorry.


#39

What’s wrong with his advice? this literally is the only thing presently within your control. I’ve never argued against working on your own game. Outside finding a 6 stack no much else you can do. This advice will extend to a role queue situation as well, but you’ll have the added bonus of always getting a good team structure to play within and thus a great environment for learning the game. Most of gold doesn’t even know why you need tanks, they’re just big DPS right?

My argument is also not about winning, it’s about increasing the quality of games so more people have a positive experience playing this and don’t want to quit because every team lacks proper resources.

Put a different way I have had losses with good fellas in a group working toward the common glory but it didn’t pan out. Fellas say GG and we part our separate ways, no one is happy about losing but everyone tried their best and we had a chance to win because our team wasn’t handicapped by 4 dps mains out of the gate. These games you lose but you’re pumped to get in there and give it another go cause that was fun, that’s overwatch. If competition is only about winning you’re going to be disappointed. If you’re dummying people so bad you always win, that’s not competition; that’s the house league superstar effect.

I have had wins where my team are at each other’s throats (have been since hero select) for no reason other than inability to play what they wanted. We win, usually someone resorts to hollering obscenities as loud as they can into the mic. I then sit and stare at the queue button like “why would I do this again?”

The problem is situation 2 is more common than situation 1 by a large margin.

You can’t fix people’s attitudes, or perception. But very VERY few people see a 2-2-2 and tilt immediately and this is because it’s common knowledge that this is a good composition with a win condition that doesn’t require the stars to align and the baby Jesus to descend upon your team.


#40

It’s not though, because 2 off tanks and 2 off healers isn’t a good composition, people understand this; but they’re focusing on their own game so that is, with unerring frequency what you will get. Same as when you get Junkrat and Reaper against Pharah and Ana. They haven’t a hope in Hades of getting close enough to kill anything; but still they’ll persist - but with role queue, as a Tank I won’t have recourse to fix the problem with Widow. That doesn’t improve the game for me, I literally at that point have to sit it out rather than try to do something.