Chicken first or egg first?

The common concept was defined by a man called Ernst Mayr. I don’t know it’s details, but the overall summary is this:

[…] groups of actually or potentially interbreeding natural populations, which are reproductively isolated from other such groups […]

His definition works for most cases, there are a few exceptions which i will not mention here, but you can look them up on Wikipedia.

That proves or disproves nothing. You still could take a bunch of wild chickens and with selective breeding domesticate them today.

It’s called ignorance. But it’s very common, so don’t worry.

Not everyone is a kid and at one point in life even a kid has to understand that not everything is simple.
Though, telling the kid that the chicken probably was first in that case seems easier to understand. Telling it that the egg as a tool for birth was invented long before there were chickens must be quite confusing for a child.

Egg. The first chicken was in the first chicken egg. The thing that gave birth to that egg wasn’t a chicken.

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Honey God put a chicken on earth

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well the “chicken or the egg” question is made to mess with you, but you give the kid the explanation that the egg doesn’t have to be a chicken, and from there he can figure it out himself because there’s no true answer to it.

there’s another one of these questions that i’ve heard that’s similar for example, if a rooster lays an egg, what side of the roof will the egg roll down, west or east?

ah… ignorance is bliss…

erm, rmb old mercy? ← this is the best case, everyone love that mercy 5 man rez potg, only league players hated her. other smaller cases are always the same, just not that obvious. and if you are bad at aim, you tell dev to buff the hero, and dev wont buff because high ranks and league are exploiting that hero in a way. best e.g. is sombra.

just
dont
play
meta
dps…
there are so many dps that counters double barrier and most of them dont get pick most of the time… and as you said, dont use the pro/semi pro’s idea.

not sure is it region or time different or what, overwatch has been constantly be at around 20 in twitch for me.

There were plenty of complaints from ladder players about Mass Rez.

Sombra works incredibly well in a co-ordinated environment, pro level or not. That is why the devs are reluctant to give her the buffs she needs.

What does this have to do with anything that I said? I was echoing the frustrations that pro players were having last year.

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yea, but that’s a reallly reallllyyy realllllyyyyyy small portion of the players. my friends all loved her, including me. but look at her now. i dont even want to touch her lol.

i will say 95% of the game where a sombra is in my team, it felt horrible to play that game, lack of pressure from dps, lack of killing potential besides that sombra “big” ult that have to combo with something else or it gone waste.

and? lol you forgot what you say?

so is it that or the the pro frustrated alot but dev actually listens to casual player?

I dunno I think the devs biggest problem is there is no roadmap for changes or upcoming heroes. They don’t give the players any content to look forward too and it makes it seem like they don’t really know what they are doing. If they would have some kind of way to lay out what they plan for upcoming events, how many new heroes, how many new maps we get this year it might give something for players to talk about and make the game fresh.

I actually quit playing a while ago just because the game is so stale. No new maps, characters, or events to play. Just recycled old ones and no I don’t consider the capture the flag changes as a big update.

Also balance in this game seems very skewed in the favor of particular high damage/cc heroes. They removed all the creative elements that made certain heroes unique or interesting to play(looking at torb and symm).

I went back and played tf2 recently and found the game while nostalgic still holds up when compared to overwatch and is still pumping out new events.

Many players found it an incredibly unfun ability to play against, this wasn’t a minority. I wasn’t part of the group calling for it’s removal, but I can’t say I’d want it back now.

There’s more than enough ults that can combo sufficiently enough with EMP. It all comes down to how well people want to work together. Unless they decide to reduce hack/EMP’s potency, Sombra won’t be buffed in other areas. I’m willing to bet that players would be much less vocal about Sombra being UP if a competitive clan mode was in the game.

Pro players hated playing GOATS and DS and people hated watching it, how many times do I have to say this?

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Its Torbjörn because he makes a chicken out of a feather

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right??? i play tf2 again and find the game still works so well.

erm, it is actually more fun for us, a witch hunt will begin before the fight starts, and the dps will have to swarm the hiding mercy out of hidden places, adding an extra layer to the gameplay. and nope, at that time we dont find it frustrating to play against too. cause mercy rez and the places the dead get rez have alot of disadvantage, it is very predicatable, and it is a potential double wipe free ult charge too. i will say unpleasant to play against also minority for the majority of players. but i wouldnt say anything about those “fps” players that come from other shooting game and have no idea why is this ok in a “hero shooter” kind of moba game.

her ult is op while coordinated. other than that, most of the time she is useless and not performing.

this is the issue, you watched them played goat, and you know they exploited that fact. so the dev nerf those tactics. so it means dev listens to pro. and it contradict with your

pros created goat themselves, it happens only in league. i played around master at that time. goat is not dominating or anything, mei is. just dumb dps are too blind to play anything else other than “meta” dps.
goat and double shield never really created much issue for me in my games. cause it is soooooo easy to counter in my games.
but, they listen to pros, once more, i will tag the same line you said just in case you cant make sense with what i stated

They took the sledgehammer to GOATS only after it had dominated pro play for an entire YEAR. They were then shoved into another unlikable meta for 4/5 months as the devs seemed reluctant to make the balance changes the game needed. If they listened solely to the pros, this meta would’ve been gone in a month at most.

Getting rid of these comps has taken so long because of considerations for ladder players.

yea, but as i said, goat was never really the problem for common ppl.

if they listens to pros and act as quick as they could, this will be a worse cod clone. that’s the only legit reason i can think of.

dont think so, ladder players at different rank have HUGELY different opinion, and they only cater to that tiny percentage of players and pros, because they exploited those fun factor, and this goes back to mercy cases.
and when winning the game is the only consideration for the pros, this is what happened.

we kinda dragged too far, so go back to the topic, player come first or pros lol

Is it really that inconceivable to you that the devs would want to help and placate both of these groups of players? Do you have any idea what a game solely balanced around OWL would look like?

probably not solely, but probably 80-20. and player base and count proved that they might have make a wrong decision lol. cause you can have the best player with the best play in the world, but without the correct number of crowd or value of that action, that means nothing.

The pros and streamers gave balance suggestions based on keeping heroes they didn’t want to deal with out of their games.

Today’s Overwatch is a reflection of this. Everything from the DPS queues due to nobody wanting to play tank or support, to the repeated nerfing of mediocre/under-performing heroes.

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