A large reason why there is so much CC in OW1 is because of 2 tanks per team… how else do you stop them? Not to mention like I already said OW2 Orisa would have to be gimped if there was a 2nd tank on her team and suddenly she wouldn’t be so fun like she is in OW2.
The reason you can’t power creep the rest of the game is because 80% of the roster doesn’t have the survivability of tanks. If you buff damage & healing for DPS/supports you’re going to end up with tanks who can’t die & DPS/Supports that die instantly
The large amount of CC is specifically to stop dive, which is not BECAUSE of 2 dive tanks, it’s because of 2 tanks plus the 2 dive dps. You think dive isn’t going to prevalent in OW2? I have bad news for you. Unless you have an insane widow it will effectively be THE ONLY way to play OW2. Someone has to get back there to kill supports, because you’re not killing the tank with them alive.
Your second point isn’t responding to mine. Regardless of powerlevel, OW2-Orisa is more fun than OW1-Orisa. I’m not comparing OW2-Orisa to what OW2-Orisa WOULD BE in OW1. That’s irrelevant. Unless you don’t like OW1?
2 tanks are part of your equation & like I said 2 tanks are a large reason why there is so much CC in OW1… the best way to stop 2 tanks pressing W into your team (or diving into your team, or cancelling their team fight winning ultimates) is CC. 2 tanks per team is a big reason why there is so much CC in OW1.
I do think dive will be prevalent in OW2, it should be, but other playstyles will be prevalent too, as they should be.
Maybe you’re not understanding what I’m saying. OW2 Orisa is more fun than OW1 Orisa because of how she’s balanced in OW2. If OW2 Orisa were gimped because there were 2 tanks per team she wouldn’t be anywhere near as fun anymore.
If they hard nerfed the damage on her javelin throw, hard nerfed the effectiveness of her javelin spin, nerfed fortify & nerfed her weapon to make her balanced with 2 tanks per team, you wouldn’t think she’s anywhere near as fun. She’s fun in OW2 because she’s actually effective by herself.
I’m afraid that too many heroes simply drop out of the 5vs5 meta. I can see the desire of the devs to cater to the “zoomer” generation, but this game may just end up being neither meat nor fish.
Ok and replace ‘2’ tanks with OW2 tanks and your statement is still true. If a lot of CC still existed it would still be the best way to stop them. So I’m not sure what your point is. Again when comparing 5v5 vs 6v6 this does not hold any water, it’s entirely about creativity and design principles.
I disagree, I’d be willing to bet money dive will be the only effective playstyle. But I can’t prove this out and neither can you so can only really agree to disagree on this subject.
I did understand what you said, but it may not be what you meant.
You did not mention OW1 Orisa.
OW2 Orisa is more fun than OW1 Orisa because of her abilities and the type of gameplay she allows. It has absolutely nothing to do with her power level. In 6v6 she would be allowed to still do what she does due to assistance from the other tank while retaining flexibility for more playstyles. If you somehow actually think bunker Orisa would be more fun than her, then I think this conversation is over as it’s just too absurd for me to continue.
Having 2 tanks barreling towards you instead of 1 requires more CC (you could even say double the CC)
If you have 4 cuts on your arm you can’t use just 2 bandaids, you need 4.
I’ll take that bet. We are using imaginary money it seems, but how much monopoly money are you willing to put on the table? I’ll wager Boardwalk with a hotel that other playstyles besides Dive will be effective, especially considering that most of the playerbase isn’t all that coordinated to dive.
This is where you’re wrong… OW2 Orisa is more fun than OW1 Orisa not only because of her design but also because of her power level. If OW2 Orisa was put in OW1 but her power level was cut in half and she felt like a piece of paper then she wouldn’t be fun either. Who cares if she throws a javelin if it deals no damage, who cares if she has javelin spin if it only reduced projectile damage by 50% and didn’t eat grav & other abilities, who cares about her new weapon if it dealt only 70% of the damage it deals in OW2 etc.
I don’t understand this view at all. They removed everything from tanks that people whined about when there were two of them. Now all the tanks feel more like off-tanks but there is only one of them.
Give two back and now you have two half-assed tanks instead of one. I fail to see why they would need to revert anything at all.
So your point again has nothing to do with her being more fun than bunker OW1. Even if she’s weak, like say DVa, she’s still more fun than bunker Orisa.
You also seem to be approaching this from this perspective of ‘tanks in 6v6 are inherently unfun’ whereas I am saying I enjoyed tank and OW1 for oh, well S1 until let’s just say Brig was released can’t imagine why. Then when that was fixed it was until oh, Sigma was released. Why is that? Bad design, unfun playstyles. Guess what, they’re still not fun in OW2 and neither would a super buffed OW1 Orisa. That’s why they binned her.
She’s only more fun than Bunker Orisa if her stats aren’t gimped (which they would be if there were 2 tanks per team) Like I already explained, if Javelin throw was hard nerfed to deal almost no damage, if javelin spin was hard nerfed to not eat projectiles & only reduce incoming damage by 50%, if fortify had extra HP removed & her gun was nerfed by 30% she wouldn’t be nearly as fun because she’d feel like paper & hit like paper too
I enjoy tanking in OW1 too, but it would be a whole lot more fun if my hero wasn’t gimped because there’s another tank on the team. I’ve been looking forward to 5v5 since it was announced knowing I’d be made more powerful, not to mention how frustrating it is to have a 2nd tank feed the enemy team, or pull the team in a different & not as optimal direction, among other issues
They’ve burned the ships to the Old World, dude. They’ve announced and reannounced and re-reannounced how important it is to them that they love the 5v5, so they ain’t going back.
Not even if it becomes clear this late in the game that it’s a bad direction that’s been poorly thought out because the people who originally designed the 6v6 kinda knew what they were doing in doing it just that way.
If Blizzard has proved one thing in their time overseeing Overwatch, it’s that they never ever admit when they’ve made a bad call.
My 20 minute queue times in tank on ow2 atm beg to differ. Also dont forget we are getting a massive roster of new heroes for each role on release.
That coupled with faster paced play, no double shield crap and no cc. Tank is already extremely fun now and im a dps main.
Seems people who arent very good at skill based fps just dont like 5v5. It drastically exposes bad positioning, aim, game knowledge now. With a score board to show it all off and as a high elo player this is what the game needed badly.
No to all your post. It’s clear from you preferring bunker Orisa to weaker OW2 Orisa you think metawinning=fun so we inherently disagree, therefore I’m sorta done replying to you.
Happy you enjoy the new OW. I actually don’t hate it either. But I disagree removing aspects of the game that require strategy and making it shallow does not make the game better. There should be a 6v6 option like there is currently rq/oq option. If one tanks then the other becomes the main game. It’s that easy.
I don’t prefer bunker Orisa at all I think she’s boring… I highly prefer the new Orisa… you’re seemingly not understanding what I’m saying. The point I’m making is that OW2 Orisa is fun not only because of her new design but also because of her strength with her new design. If, however, her new design were hard nerfed because there were 2 tanks per team (nerfing would be required) she would be less fun than she currently is now in OW2
You said
But that simply isn’t true. Power level plays a big role in how fun a hero is.
Many people consider Tracer to be a fun hero, but if she dealt half the damage she does now that “many people” would turn into very few if any because she’d be ineffective
As far as this part of your post goes… I haven’t even tried OW2 yet, I just got beta access this morning. Does it look like a ton of fun? Absolutely. Do I think 5v5 is the best direction for the game to go? Absolutely. However until I try it myself I can’t say for sure.
I do disagree that going to 5v5 makes OW “not require strategy” or that it makes OW “shallow”. I wouldn’t be against a 6v6 option, but the game shouldn’t be balanced around it, that’s what put tanks in their current OW1 state.
I 100% support this. It could be an experimental card; something to give the community a chance to decide what’s actually better.
They would still probably need to tone tanks down a little, potentially nerf their damage similar to what they did for the last experimental card in OW1.
As a tank main, I actually hated that experimental patch. I actually felt super powerless and played dps instead. The queue times were faster because everyone was trying the new tanks out.
If they were to put the 5v5 tanks into the 6v6 OW1, health and barriers would be the least of their nerfs. Their damage is going to go out the window too. Dps players would lose their minds if Orisa and Rein were running around with those new abilities, doing as much damage as they do now.
Aren’t you jumping the gun a bit here though? It’s only a beta, and it’s only been out for a few days. Tank synergies may be dead, but who knows what gets discovered leading up to OW2. Saying the game will require “less strategy” is wrong to say at the moment. I think that it would be more appropriate to say that OW2 may require a whole new set of new strategies. I’ve been playing the beta for a bit and it’s only quick play with no comp, and if I’m being honest, OW1 quick play plays very similar to OW2 quick play.