since we are in the “most balanced state ever” were no specific hero is domaining the ladder and all heroes are “viable” that is what everyone saying now days
can we take underperforming heroes seriously now?
here is a short list of underperforming heroes…
mei
bap
mccree kinda
sym
bastion
and please don’t throw the “that hero is cheesy therefore they should never be viable” or the "no one mains that hero and nobody cares about him"
if a hero is cheesy why not try to rework him instead of gutting him?
there is no hero with no one that mains him.
and there is nothing called a hero that is hated 100% by everyone.
there is already people that have there own rework ideas can’t you just copy what they did or something?
i still feel so bad for sym players there is always at least 2 top posts everyday talking about her but guess what?
ChEesY HeRoEs ShOuLd NeVeR bE ViAbLe
what a retarded thought…
also there is a different between asking a hero to be viable and asking him to be OP.
saying that mei is so fine rn is like saying sym is fine.
How do you make heroes like Mei, Sym, Bastion, etc. viable without making them completely unbearable? I remember having to deal with builder meta and mei reaper, those were completely not fun to play against.
Devs just buffed Mcree and Bap (and Orisa which buffs Bap). Expecting him to be played a ton in a dive rush meta is unrealistic. Sorry. Mcree will benefit if Widow gets tuned down more.
Sym needs either 250 HP or 15m beam or both but I fully expect her to be reworked to a support for OW2.
Mei is probably being reworked into an off tank for OW2.
Bastion is never going to be super viable without a rework, and to…what exactly? And how?
And sorry to burst your bubble but some heroes WILL never be as viable as others. Heroes in Overwatch are tools with specific uses and functions. Some tools are more general-use and some are very niche. Bastion is literally a high damage immobile turret, he will probably always be one of the least “viable” heroes unless they do a rework that completely strips him of his current kit and identity, which might end up pissing off more Bastion players than it pleases.
You really can’t make certain heroes viable without them becoming opressive unless you strip away a lot of the unique parts of their kit (Mei’s CC or Sombra’s hack, for example).
These heroes are really niche, so if they’re made usable outside their niche, they force their playstyle on the team (mei, bap, sym and bastion are all heroes who make up bunker comps, cree is strong in brawl and still pretty much does what he needs to), basically narrowing down the list of other things that can be picked severely. Sym and mei can control small spaces, bap can single handedly enable a bunker and bastion has a high dmg output by design when he is immobile. These are things that they’re the best at, making them compete with other stuff while also having these strengths will only make their optimal playstyle be the meta, which is a really small niche, like 1/3 of the roster at best
for sym, I’d like to point out the only reason why sym currently is so niche and team dependent is because she simply lacks fundamental tools for her to function. legit her situation is:
tp was her tool for the first point but blizz trashed it by spiking up its down time immensely for no good reason via infinite tp nerf.
and tp was legit sym’s tool to be more bursty too because it allowed sym to precharge orbs or pre-place turrets before sending them through so that her engagement wouldn’t include setup time.
pretty much the only reason sym is so dependent on double shield team pockets now (i.e. why she’s so niche and team dependent) is literally because of tp being via the infinite tp nerf.
She doesn’t enable other comps as much as she does with bunker, that won’t change even if you make her better close range, she’ll just be a better shutdown for people that push into your backline, which bunker is already strong at
the point being raised here (by OP) isn’t to be able to carry/prop up an entire comp to being better with her existence, it’s to make her viable. e.g. moira and lucio are clearly better in deathball comps compared to their performance in other comps, but they’re not completely incapable to function in other comps. like lucio and moira can work in dive decently (yes, moira is legit being used for dive rn in some instances). that is not the case for sym.
heck what I’m saying about sym’s issue of legit lacking the fundamental tools to function, resulting in a hero that has legit low effective range, low sustain, low mobility and not much burst options —> extremely high hero down time, transcends specialty. like even brig or moira who specialise in deathball comps aren’t gatekept in needing team pockets for them to heal or peel in the same way sym does to contribute atm.
Wait after OWL playoffs end (9-10th October)
My opinion about Mei is that they can go in the “tank” direction with her, but this means a change in her abilities and secondary fire (the damage, the cooldowns, the duration and how they interact with enemies, even some redesign is needed as well as, ofc, larger healthpool).
However they can also give her some bandaid fixes to make up for some of the nerfs such as faster fire rate and a few reverts and compensations to cryo and primary fire and she can be playable as a dps too.
if they’re made usable outside their niche, they force their playstyle on the team
It can be said about any hero. Widow forces an entire team to swap their heroes. Genji makes your games “go full-CC or lose”. Winston is literally Dive enforcerer, he can’t be played in other comps.
This “niche” card is overused. Every hero in the game is “niche”, it’s just some heroes are made bad and called “niche” so they’d have an excuse to never get buffed.
These heroes should be elo based, as whole forum wants ballance for low elo - here you go. Mei bastion sym etc low skill demand heroes are nerfed for you so you don’t struggle against. At higher elo they still have their stong niche, if you make it stronger, they become absurd meta, like double shield +sym/mei/reapper.
The only thing that needs to be done about bap is his regeneration burst. It’s absolute garbage outside of healing yourself. Rework that and his exo boots and he’d be perfect.
Every version of sym was used for 1 ability, either for the carwash or her tp. She now plays really well on 2 cp maps with most comps and enables bunker comps on maps with highgrounds.
Genji is getting a lot of playtime now, and the other 2 most played dps, the 2 most played tanks and the 4 most played supports don’t have a cc against him, and he still has a 50% winrate in most ranks. Widow makes you to change positions but not compositions most of the time, unless you are playing double offtanks, which is kind of a questionable choice. Winston enforces dive, but dive has many playable heroes, ranging from snipers to mobility heroes on dps and basically any support that’s not bap. The difference is that the heroes you mentioned that they’re more applicable than for example sym, but they don’t do either of those jobs as well as sym does in her niche. If we want these heroes buffed, we need to take away their core playsytles (car wash and tp from sym, the 0 mobility+ton of dmg nature of bastion), because if you don’t, they’ll be superpowered when in situations that favor them and they’ll be just as forgiving as others any other time, making them and their niche the most optimal playstyle. This is exactly what happens when we have these strange metas, goats was so good because brawling was good with brig and even when they couldn’t brawl they had lots of sustain, double shield because you didn’t have to make risky plays, just outdamaged the other team and hog zarya, cause hog could be only rivaled by another hog and a zarya could disable that other hog. In all of these cases most heroes were pretty much throwpicks
Naw man sym old sym had a good mix between turrets shield gen and pierce. And when you are in trouble you have your own shield. She was closer to a generalist before well especially when you compare it to the gimmick that tp currently is
Then what else am i supposed to tell you?
Bap, McCree and Sym are fine design wise and need buffs.
Mei and Bastion have design issues that can be resolved.
Mei probably easier than Bastion though. Being a stationary target in a game where you want to constantly be on the move just isn’t going to work unless you make him overpowered or infuriating to deal with.
via the infinite tp nerf.