Can we delete mercy from the game?

[Nicolas-23149]

Whoever complains about fighting against Mercy? Why would anyone want her deleted, just don’t play her lol

Because “she so unfair to play against” xd

[lolojenkins-11431]

You’re taking my words out of context and twisting them to fit your narrative. Let me correct you.

No aim, no LOS, instant ress entire team, negate enemy ults used before, everything you mentioned she had since the start of the game. No where you mention invul was an issue or what makes mass ress a game breaking ult.

I’m sorry, haven’t slept in over 34 hours, I should have mentioned invuln, but since you knew which iteration of Mercy I was talking about, I thought (incorrectly on my part) that you knew invuln was included. When Mercy didn’t have invuln, she was F-tier because it was too difficult for her to res without dying, so I thought it was pretty obvious we were referring to Mercy with invuln. Thereafter, she was buffed to what I described “no aim, no LoS, can be pretty far from the team fight to use rez, invuln for herself and everyone she’s rezzing, negated the enemy’s ULT and hardfought team wipe.”

No where you mention invul was an issue or what makes mass ress a game breaking ult.

Yes, here is my quote below.

a 5man res was such a strong ability that you HAD to run a mercy…if the enemy team had a mercy, your team HAD to have a mercy to counter otherwise the team with the mercy wins. A 5man res is huge, I don’t know how you can argue that it’s not an extremely strong ability – the ability to negate hard fought deaths often won by the enemy team burning ultimates.

Also from the posts ive seen from Mercy players that want mass ress back they all agree that invul shouldnt be a part of it, and that it should have been removed.

Please list 5 threads that all agree on that. Different mercy threads have different mercy rework ideas and the community is split on whether res should even be in the game at all – let alone mass rez.

I havent seen Mercy players arguing to bring back the ‘‘game breaking ult’’ of mass ress+invul, they just want mass ress, the part that now acording to you isnt game breaking.

LOL how did you jump to that conclusion? Everything I have said supports my contention that it is gamebreaking. You can’t just twist someone’s words – that aren’t even related to your argument – and then jump to “therefore I’m right.”

Are we really surprised theres a fair share of Mercy players out there frustrated at their constructive feed back being repeatedly ignored since the rework, and of a solid year of being bullied and mocked on the forums (how many forum threads have we seen about skilless Mercy players deserving to be nerfed into the ground, how many were arguing Mercy shouldnt even be viable past gold at best?, not to mention the ingame hate).

I agree with you there, I think Mercy is undertuned right now and needs a buff. Maybe back to 60HPS all the time (instead of just in valk) and maybe a bonus rez during Valk. But by the same hand, just because Mercy players are frustrated that doesn’t mean they have the right to dominate the forums, derail threads, and just generally act condescending and rude to others (examples GALORE in this thread alone). The hate to the mercy community is not justified because I don’t think general hate towards any group isn’t justified. But it’d also be incorrect to say that the hate towards forum mercys came out of nowhere. There are a lot of forum mercys that not only fit the stereotype, they perpetuate it (examples galore in this thread). I’ve had some pretty respectful actual debates on how to rework mercy, but I can count the number of times I’ve had a rational, logic-based argument with a forum mercy on one hand. Meanwhile, in just this thread you can see rampant entitlement, closed-mindedness, condescendion, and just general negativity which perpetuates the bad rep the mercy community gets. The mercy community would be taken more seriously if they stuck to rational, logical arguments instead of reverting to emotional ones and personal attacks.

Writting a pretty agressive post to ‘‘inspire Mercy mains to keep posting constructive feed back’’ after a year of 10s of thousands of constructive posts being ignored and treated like dirt, cause some of them are frustrated and making posts that arent constructive, seems at the very least disingenuous.

I get that it’s frustrating, but that doesn’t give forum mercys a free pass to act like jerks to everyone. The only real way to have the devs balance mercy (and not be scared to actively try to buff/nerf abilities to balance her out) is if the mercy community wasn’t in a constant state of outrage. I mean forum mercys were complaining about her incoming 60HPS buff during Valk BEFORE IT EVEN WENT LIVE – BEFORE THEY EVEN TRIED IT. If you were a dev, wouldn’t you also feel like no matter what you do it’s lose-lose? Couple that with the fact that the mercy community isn’t united on ONE specific rework they want, instead, the mercy community all has different ideas on how to rework her. The devs have to consider not only the mercy community’s split opinions, but also how to balance her for the rest of the game and other heroes. It’s a tough balance to strike.

making posts that arent constructive, seems at the very least disingenuous.

Not a disingenous post at all, as you can see by the amount of time I’m engaging in trying to keep this a rational, fact based dialogue between you and I (and even some aggressively defensive forum mercys). But ironically, the forum mercys in this thread did not read the OP and did exactly what I advised against – just blindly going in aggressively attacking someone instead of focusing on constructive criticism that considers what the devs have already said is and is not feasible.

Example: If your mom says you cannot drink coke because she thinks it’s unhealthy but lets you eat as much KFC as you want, you can make a million arguments about why coke isn’t as bad as KFC, how you can limit your coke intake, etc. etc. but if mom says you cannot drink coke because she thinks it’s bad (the devs are mom in this case) there’s no counterargument, now you just have to figure out how to convince your mom to let you drink offbrand coke by acknowledging what she found problematic about you drinking coke in the first place.

THAT’S LITERALLY ALL I’M SAYING.

[Navoc-2655]

That’s not what you need to be forgiven for, it’s your passive aggressive, condescending tone of entitlement that needs to be forgiven.

It’s not passive aggressive. I’m calling you out on the things you wrote.

Also, I already told you where to find the source. I’m not going to google it and spoonfeed it to you. If you don’t know information, it’s on you to get the facts. I went and researched and got the facts. You’re not a baby, I’m not spoonfeeding it to you.

That’s not how this works. You made the claim, you need to produce the evidence.

Not convenient, just how eidetic memory works. I can remember verbatim written words or words I hear but not necessarily pictures, events, etc. There’s a common misconception that people with a photographic memory can remember EVERYTHING. No, actually, eidetic memory tends to be specific; some people remember music, some pictures, some only through personal interaction. I can remember exactly what he said because he said the words, I cannot remember the exact steps I took down the rabbit hole to get more information on Mercy before I talk about her (something you might want to consider). Another wild accusation shot down

You did not shoot anything down, you just made yet another claim that I may or may not believe.

I already told you, try looking for developer update or just google “passionate” “mercy” and “jeff kaplan.”

So now it’s from a developer update? Didn’t you write he said that in some interview before?

But I do remember having a debate with you before, in which you also made claims about things the developers allegedly said; more specifically, you claimed they said Resurrect was overpowered when it was Mercy’s ultimate. When I asked you to provide evidence you eventually pasted two developer comments from patch notes which unfortunately were referring to Resurrect as her E ability.
Well, that was awkward. You see why I’m skeptical about just blindly believing you?
Speaking of me being skeptical…

The person you’re healing gets the most heals, the chain beamed teammates do not get as much. The more heroes you are healing chainbeamed, the less HPS they receive.

Now, I’m really, really curious where you got this idea from.

[lolojenkins-11431]

Here’s the problem with your thread as a whole: This statement.

Essentially you’re addressing a specific group of people, but you can’t say which, how many or who it is exactly. You simply leave that to self-identification.

But at the same time, you’re oversimplifying the concept. You’re turning “Mercy mains” into a buzz word that has now been so frequently overused and overexploited that people’s reaction to your thread is just going to be instinctively negative because they know from the moment you said “Mercy mains” in a negative context, it was just going to be unsupported claims.

There is literally no point in addressing general statements. The devil is in the details. For example:

• I’m a Mercy main.
• I love the changes that have come recently, especially the new buff.
• I feel like Mercy is a capable main healer again now since she gets her ult much faster and it’s strong enough now to actually heal during heavy pushes, but she’s no longer so overpowering I don’t have any reason to switch to Ana or Moira.
• I don’t care about Reddit.
• Reddit is full of circlejerking.
• The problem with Reddit is that because you can downvote threads, things that are unpopular gets erased from view and therefore you only see mainstream opinions.
• Mainstream opinions are an appeal to authority and not an argument in itself. They are frequently factually wrong and misinformed.

All of this is a fair point and well taken – especially the part about *“the devil is in the details” and the kneejerk reaction some buzzwords receive.

However, on the note of making general claims that make assumptions about people,

You were never going for a healthy discussion. You wanted replies more than you wanted to present a strong argument.

I do take offense to this because (a) you have no reason to believe that and I repeatedly throughout this thread try to get the comments back on topic and (b) you are doing exactly what you said is problematic about my thread.

I’m also not trying to present a “strong argument” of any kind. I want some buffs for Mercy too. I’m saying that if the mercy community wants their input and suggestions to be taken seriously, they have to acknowledge the dev’s comments and move forward from there. Whining/complaining threads and constant negativity just makes the community seem entitled and are less likely to get a response from the devs. Also, I wanted to point out the lack of uniformity in what the mercy community is asking for. Some want mass rez back, some don’t. Some don’t think res should be in the game at all, some think a single res on “e” is fine. The community should get into agreement (similar to the Sym or Bastion commmunity) about exactly what the current issues are (“she’s unfun” is subjective and not an argument) AND provide feasible suggestions for how to fix it.

I think your final accusation was unfair, unwarranted, and perpetuates what I said above.

[Bogrim-2180]

(a) you have no reason to believe that (b) you are doing exactly what you said is problematic about my thread.

A. Your thread title is literally a clickbait intended to provoke people into clicking your topic.
B. I’m not stereotyping posters to generate views.

I’m also not trying to present a “strong argument” of any kind. I want some buffs for Mercy too. I’m saying that if the mercy community wants their input and suggestions to be taken seriously,

If you want people to listen to you, you need to present a strong argument. It’s like suggesting people, “I think you should go that way.” The person looks and you and asks, “Why?” You then shrug your shoulders, “I don’t have to present a reason.”

Everything in your original post just lacks that fundamental aspect. You go on to describing what you believe to be a huge problem, about how the Mercy community does this, about how the developers do that, but you’ve forgotten the fundamentals: the basic evidence to support your claim.

Imagine this: We both have extremely different views on “Mercy mains.” Therefore nothing you say about Mercy mains applies to my understanding of the situation. I think it’s an extremely small vocal minority you’re addressing that does not represent anyone, but you are boxing people together under the label of “Mercy mains” just the same.

For example, let’s say we put the code of conduct aside and you got the green light to name every poster you specifically want to address with this post. How many names could you list? 10? 20? How many out of the 40 million Overwatch accounts? How small a percentage are we talking? Is it the 0.0001% or the 0.00001%?

I think your final accusation was unfair, unwarranted, and perpetuates what I said above.

I think that’s an incredibly hypocritical response to being criticized for your reasoning skills when all you’re doing with this thread is criticizing other poster’s reasoning skills.

[lolojenkins-11431]

@Bergmaniac-2621

I didn’t thank that the OP would manage to make himself even sillier after that train wreck of an opening post, but he has managed it admirably. What a condescending jerk.

No need to be a condescending jerk. You clearly didn’t read the OP at all LOL. You just read the title and popped off. Here, I’ll include the TLDR and EDIT for clarity for you here:

@lolojenkins-11431

TLDR: Since mercy mains differ in what balance changes they want, they will never be pleased with any balance changes Blizzard makes (see their outrage for EVERY update). Since a lot of vocal Mercy mains will always find ANY balance change to Mercy to never be enough unless it’s mass rez, let’s just delete the character and be done with this nonsense whining.

Now this is not to say all mercy mains are this way, but definitely a huge majority of forum posters and youtube mercy mains are this way. My post does not apply to the openminded mercy mains who have adapted to Valk and can be a force to be reckoned with on mercy.

EDIT: This post is hyperbolic. I don’t literally want mercy – or any other hero – deleted from the game. The purpose of this thread is to encourage mercy mains to focus more on constructive feedback – CONSIDERING WHAT THE DEVS HAVE SAID – to make her more balanced rather than bombarding the forums and derailing every thread into a revert mercy thread.

---

@Navoc-2655

It’s not passive aggressive. I’m calling you out on the things you wrote.

You were passive aggressive. I wasn’t talking about one sentence in one comment, I’m talking about your tone in multiple comment exchanges.

@Navoc-2655

That’s not how this works. You made the claim, you need to produce the evidence.

Generally that’s true, but when the information is so widespread and you claim to be an expert on this topic, then it’s no longer on me to “let me google that for you.” You can choose to be blind to objective facts that occur – as you are now – that’s not my problem. If you do want to know what Papa Jeff said, it’s up to you to look it up. I don’t care either way.

@Navoc-2655

You did not shoot anything down, you just made yet another claim that I may or may not believe.

Um…yes I did. You said, “Speaking of delegitimizing oneself, I find it curious that you cannot seem to remember when or where he supposedly made that statement, but do remember his precise choice of words. Convenient, isn’t it?”

I responded by saying I have a photographic memory and can remember words, but not necessarily the rabbit hole of mercy research I went down to find the video. It’s still up though somewhere so it shouldn’t be too hard to find. So that you don’t twist these words, I’ll requote exactly what I said:

@lolojenkins-11431

Not convenient, just how eidetic memory works. I can remember verbatim written words or words I hear but not necessarily pictures, events, etc. There’s a common misconception that people with a photographic memory can remember EVERYTHING. No, actually, eidetic memory tends to be specific; some people remember music, some pictures, some only through personal interaction. I can remember exactly what he said because he said the words, I cannot remember the exact steps I took down the rabbit hole to get more information on Mercy before I talk about her (something you might want to consider). Another wild accusation shot down

@Navoc-2655

So now it’s from a developer update? Didn’t you write he said that in some interview before?

Jesus christ this is why I don’t argue with forum mercys. LIKE YOU QUOTED ABOVE, LIKE I SAID ABOVE, I DO NOT REMEMBER HOW I FOUND THE VIDEO: I WAS RESEARCHING UPDATES ON MERCY SINCE I TOOK A BREAK FOR 5-6 SEASON FOR LAW SCHOOL. Since you said you did 1 google search and couldn’t find it, I gave some more suggestions for how to find a popular video. Here’s my direct quote:

@lolojenkins-11431

No people caught on to it. A lot of people know about the parody video and the “passionate” video you’re just out of the loop… the video is still up of Jeff Kaplan talking about the mercy community. Actually you might also want to search Emong stream Jeff Kaplan and Mercy and passionate. I can’t believe I just gave a tutorial on “how to google something in 2018."

@Navoc-2655

you also made claims about things the developers allegedly said; more specifically, you claimed they said Resurrect was overpowered when it was Mercy’s ultimate. When I asked you to provide evidence you eventually pasted two developer comments from patch notes which unfortunately were referring to Resurrect as her E ability.

Yes, and if you took the time to read those comments, you could see that just because the notes were about res on “e,” doesn’t mean that the comments didn’t mention that res was too strong AKA overpowered. I remember engaging in that debate with you, and you repeatedly weren’t reading the developer notes I googled and copied and pasted for you – just saying “no that’s res on ‘e’” without actually reading it to see if it applied.

Now do you see why I won’t google things for you?

@Navoc-2655

Now, I’m really, really curious where you got his idea from.

So, like I said to you above, you don’t need to spoonfeed me google search results & dev updates on why this fact is untrue, it’s on me to educate myself about whether or not the chain beams decrease healing per target. Since I can’t remember where I heard that fact, I did some research and found on the old OW forum site (the closed one now) and Geoff did post a while ago that the chain beams just link to whoever is in line of sight and did not mention any dropoff. I also cannot find a single post saying there’s a dropoff when you link to more people. I cannot remember where I learned that fact, either someone in game told me this or I watched it in a video. Obviously, that information was wrong so I take responsibility for that fact I presented being incorrect. It’s good to know now that chain beam healing does not dropoff the more people you heal because I had been operating under that assumption since someone told me/maybe saw in a video. To be clear, you are right on that point and I was wrong. I actually appreciate the clarification because it’ll help me in-game.

Moving on to the next point, I fully stand by 100% that papa jeff used the word “um…passionate” to describe the mercy community. That for sure was in some kind of video spoken out of Papa Jeff’s mouth himself. I took the time to research a fact you pointed out to make sure my fact was correct, and figured out myself that it was wrong. I think if you want evidence of Papa Jeff saying mercy mains are “passionate,” then like me, it’s on you to educate yourself on a point you’re not clear about, especially when it’s an easy find and not my responsibility to google for you.

---

@Bogrim-2180

A. Your thread title is literally a clickbait intended to provoke people into clicking your topic.
B. I’m not stereotyping posters to generate views.

A. As I already mentioned in a comment above (really, please, can people start reading the actual post and comments before just shooting off random accusations) the title is a play off of all the “delete x hero/nerf x hero” posts that are abundant on the forums lately. I guess jokes don’t translate well to a community that, as you said, is already defensive because they don’t feel heard. However, just because you didn’t pick up on the joke doesn’t automatically mean that you can come to the conclusion that I made a “clickbait title to provke people and stereotype posters to generate views.” What on earth would I gain from that?

@Bogrim-2180

If you want people to listen to you, you need to present a strong argument. It’s like suggesting people, “I think you should go that way.” The person looks and you and asks, “Why?” You then shrug your shoulders, “I don’t have to present a reason.”

No, not really at all. It’s more like a group of people using one map fighting over which direction to go and me saying, “hey, it’s going to be more productive if we all agree on one route and go that way instead of all of us spreading out and not working as one cohesive team advocating for the same thing.” Just because I didn’t pick a specific route for the team to take – I don’t play enough Mercy that I feel justified in weighing in on exactly what buffs/nerfs need to be taken to balance not just Mercy as a hero, but Mercy in the context of the entire game – doesn’t mean that me blowing the whistle and saying, “hey, what we’re doing isn’t productive and is wasting time. Let’s focus on one issue at a time” is generic and not a strong argument.

@Bogrim-2180

Everything in your original post just lacks that fundamental aspect. You go on to describing what you believe to be a huge problem, about how the Mercy community does this, about how the developers do that, but you’ve forgotten the fundamentals: the basic evidence to support your claim.

Yes I did, in another thread. Here’s a quote and link to other thread for reference (I made the other thread before this one):

@lolojenkins-11431

here are a list of posts about just mercy ONLY ib the general forum and only on the front page. I am not including generic healing posts that include mercy in this list, the following are just mercy specific threads on the front page:

1. [Mercy mass ress ideas ]
2. Will there be a response to Mercy soon?
3. Why I Have Yet to Not Despise Mercy’s Current State
4. “Mercy is a sidekick”
5. Mercy 3.0 Rework
6. Revert Mercy Beams?
7. 3 reasons why mass rez was GOOD for the game
8. How is Mercy’s super jump not a bug?
9. Mercy Rework- Is this the solution?
10. Mercy’s Damage Boost
11. Mercy is still not enjoyable nor viable

@Bogrim-2180

Therefore nothing you say about Mercy mains applies to my understanding of the situation. I think it’s an extremely small vocal minority you’re addressing that does not represent anyone, but you are boxing people together under the label of “Mercy mains” just the same.

Ok, we can agree to disagree, but I am not boxing people together under the generic label of “mercy mains.” Even in my original post I say:

@lolojenkins-11431

Now this is not to say all mercy mains are this way, but definitely a huge majority of forum posters and youtube mercy mains are this way. My post does not apply to the openminded mercy mains who have adapted to Valk and can be a force to be reckoned with on mercy.

And in the comments frequently distinguish mercy mains from forum mercys. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read the original comment and replies before throwing out accusations.

@Bogrim-2180

I think that’s an incredibly hypocritical response to being criticized for your reasoning skills when all you’re doing with this thread is criticizing other poster’s reasoning skills.

Haven’t criticized reasoning skills, have criticized people not reading the original post or any reply comments and then firing off wild accusations from the hip, but didn’t attack anyone’s reasoning skills. So no, incorrect.

Also, by saying, “I think that’s an incredibly hypocritical response to being criticized for your reasoning skills when all you’re doing with this thread is criticizing other poster’s reasoning skills” you realize how ironic that is right? You realize you yourself have become the hypocrite especially because I have not been criticizing reasoning skills?

[Bergmaniac-2621]

You clearly didn’t read the OP at all LOL. You just read the title and popped off. Here, I’ll include the TLDR and EDIT for clarity for you here:

Wrong. I read all of it. It’s dumb and you should be ashamed of your poor trolling skills, backtracking edit or not.

[lolojenkins-11431]

Wrong. I read all of it. It’s dumb and you should be ashamed of your poor trolling skills, backtracking edit or not.

I have one edit, and I labeled it edit. If you actually did read the thread, you would know this. Citing it here again in hopes you’ll read it:

EDIT: This post is hyperbolic. I don’t literally want mercy – or any other hero – deleted from the game. The purpose of this thread is to encourage mercy mains to focus more on constructive feedback – CONSIDERING WHAT THE DEVS HAVE SAID – to make her more balanced rather than bombarding the forums and derailing every thread into a revert mercy thread.

[Bogrim-2180]

(really, please, can people start reading the actual post and comments before just shooting off random accusations)

It just doesn’t work that way. The thread title is a massive part of the discussion’s health. You’re always going to invite responses to it into your discussion. And your reply is littered with evidence of that behavior: You’re constantly doing damage control and asking people not to address your thread title.

I guess jokes don’t translate well to a community that

Here’s the other thing that I really wanted to pick up as well since it went over your head the first time. You need evidence to support your claims.

You keep talking about a “community.” What is the community? In order for there to be a community, people need to, you know, communicate. Mercy posters do not communicate together, nor do any other posters for that matter. Because it’s a forum and it’s not possible for a community to thrive here without violating the code of conduct by posting direct messages to other posters.

Why does this point matter? Because one of your suggestions was for “the Mercy community to come together,” but again there needs to be a platform for communication for any form of organization to happen.

Yes I did, in another thread. Here’s a quote and link to other thread for reference (I made the other thread before this one):

This partly hits the root of the problem.

The problem is the fact that threads drown by the minute and in order for a discussion to stay afloat it needs to get a lot of responses, and the easiest way to get responses is to say controversial mainstream opinions.

Therefore you get a forum that gets flooded with the same opinions all the time because posters know that saying “Mercy should get mass res back” is a guaranteed way for your thread to survive. Just like you knew posting “delete mercy” in your thread title would guarantee your thread’s growth.

But this problem is not limited to Mercy and it is a forum structure problem. And the point to understand here is that you don’t need to box people together to solve the problem. But by boxing them together, you’ve destroyed the chance of a constructive discussion.

Side note

I didn’t want to include this in my response because it’s arguing semantics and it won’t further the debate, but:

Haven’t criticized reasoning skills

Mercy mains will never be happy because they all disagree on what they want and instead of having a constructive conversation about it, they complain on the forums and bash on the devs/dps heroes. Don’t believe me? Just go to /r/mercymains on reddit and see how toxic the mercy community is.

You’re literally criticizing their ability to reason while boxing them together as a “toxic community.”

[Symmentara-2433]

No

[Baja-11423]

deletemercy?..oh i can have fun with this one

• you mean mercy 1.0 that deleted any planning, combos, and gameplay that happened in the previous minute?

• mercy camp would argue that that would make her unfun…and that that is not the change she needs…

• she was already deleted with most recent healer buffs…shes actually perfectfly fine and the meta just doesnt suit her…but that means shes BROKEN!!!

• would that mercy still have valkyrie?

• devs dont listen

• delete mercy megathread

[Ashwynn-2955]

mercy mains aren’t a collective – they don’t get together and discuss constructive changes and issues

I guess you missed the whole thing with 200.000 posts long chain of megathreads where things were discussed in a constructive manner… until some Mercy haters started to massflag it 24/7. Or how people like Titanium and others make researched, constructive threads with a great debate only to be banned from the forums after being targeted by the report mob…

Mercies don’t come together to discuss things because we are not allowed to.
And even if we could, there will never be an unanimous decision. We all prefer different things. Even the most broken mess of a heroes have their die hard fans who want then to stay that way - as we know from other games.

[Toni-12989]

Yes there is. The person you’re healing gets the most heals, the chain beamed teammates do not get as much. The more heroes you are healing chainbeamed, the less HPS they receive. So you have to decide whether you’re more likely to win a fight chain damage boosting or chain healing and the answer is usually juggle. But again, that decision is situational. The better the mercy player, the better they can make those decisions. It doesn’t seem like you were even aware of the decreased HPS the more teammates you chain beam. Maybe that’s why Valk feels braindead to you? Because you don’t fully understand the numbers behind her kit?

WHAT ARE YOU EVEN TALKING ABOUT, OH MY GOOOOOOOD
Where have you read this information. Just tell me WHERE. Because Blizzard never posted anything like that in any patch notes. Valkyrie gives the same amount of healing for each person, as long as they are close to each other. Period. I have at least 200 hours on Mercy’s Valkyrie version, and they never changed the fact that she has the same HPS for each person the chained beams are attached.
I guess you are the one who really don’t understand her kit. Because after what you said, honestly… Get better. Study the character. Valkyrie feels braindead because it’s pretty much the same thing you do outside of ult, but a little bit enhanced. It’s not like I can’t do things with Valkyrie, it’s just that Res as an ult felt like something exclusive to her ult, special. And now is just an undo button.
h.ttp://prntscr.com/llnxun I’d recommend studying the character and have an actual knowledge before criticizing it and criticize a player with informations that don’t exist. Overwatch Wiki is a nice option.

Chain beam healing/damage boosting is not part of her regular kit, it is unique to valk. Not sure what you’re talking about.

Yet, you are doing the same thing you do the outside of her kit, except this time you don’t have to think about who you are healing or boosting since everybody is connected.

Unlimited reload on your gun is not part of her regular kit, it’s unique to valk, so again not sure what you’re talking about.

Oh, because as a support character that really is important. I’d rather be able to have more supportive tools than unlimited ammo, cause Battle Mercy shouldn’t be my primary option.

The ability to fly to the top of the skybox – or really anywhere on the map – without being attached to a Pharah is unique to valk.

Just read:

Nothing different from the regular kit, but flying independently.

If you think hiding and pressing q to mass rez required more skill than valk I don’t know what to say to you other than you’re not playing her right.

And if you think Old Res was only about Mercys hiding I guess you really didn’t play at the time. Hiding was really bad since everybody on your team would respawn in a vulnerable spot. Tempo Resses were better since you could keep a fight going on, and as we saw with the rework, tempo resses can be more powerful than the old Huge Resses, since it annulates picks and it doesn’t restart the fight.
The problem now with Res is not the fact that is solo target, but because it’s on cooldown. And Valkyrie doesn’t feel so different or engaging comparing to the rest of her kit. It was toned down because of cooldown Res. I’d love to see improvements to the ultimate, to make it more special and not just ‘‘do the same thing you were doing but now easier and flying’’.

I don’t know what to say to you other than you’re not playing her right.

Tell me that when you actually understand the character instead of creating informations and numbers about it, okay paw?

[lolojenkins-11431]

It just doesn’t work that way. The thread title is a massive part of the discussion’s health. You’re always going to invite responses to it into your discussion. And your reply is littered with evidence of that behavior: You’re constantly doing damage control and asking people not to address your thread title.

Straight up false. If I wanted to do damage control, I’d change the title. I’ve repeated multiple times that my title is a play on all of the other serious forum titles asking for players to be deleted/nerfed and how ridiculous it is. An eye for an eye mentality is not good for the game. Again, please take 2 minutes to read the original post before flinging around wild accusations.

Here’s the other thing that I really wanted to pick up as well since it went over your head the first time.

Yeah, I wonder where the stereotype that mercy mains are hostile, defensive, and impossible to have a logical, unemotional conversation without insults comes from. I have yet to throw an unsubstantiated insult at you or other forum mercys in this thread. This is where the reputation comes from.

Mercy posters do not communicate together, nor do any other posters for that matter.

Really? Then what would you call the Mercy mega thread? What would you call the most upvoted post of all time – Titanium’s mercy suggestion thread? What would you call a subbreddit – /r/mercymains – if not a community?

Why does this point matter? Because one of your suggestions was for “the Mercy community to come together,” but again there needs to be a platform for communication for any form of organization to happen.

Doesn’t even need to necessarily be a platform. One person can post an actual, suggestive and feasible mercy change. Others can add their commentary to suggest tweaks/changes to the original suggestion (which I have done). The problem is that people are all over the map and aren’t open-minded to change so we could have some of the best arguments in the world for a rework that doesn’t include rez, but there are still closed-minded people who will not be happy with mercy until mass rez is introduced. Mercy mains should be able to have a logical conversation about rez without it being derailed into “I don’t feel impactful anymore” and resorting to subjective emotions.

This partly hits the root of the problem.

The problem is the fact that threads drown by the minute and in order for a discussion to stay afloat it needs to get a lot of responses, and the easiest way to get responses is to say controversial mainstream opinions.

OK so either post a controversial thread topic and be accused of

A. Your thread title is literally a clickbait intended to provoke people into clicking your topic.
B. I’m not stereotyping posters to generate views.

Or don’t post a controversial title and get no views. Pick one.

Just like you knew posting “delete mercy” in your thread title would guarantee your thread’s growth.

For the third time, I am retyping the same words. My title is a play on all the forum posts right now arguing for “delete x hero” (right now Tracer and Genji are on the hot plate; before that it was Brig and Doomfist). It’s a wild accusation to say “you knew posting ‘delete mercy’ in your thread title would guarantee your thread’s growth,” no actually I didn’t. In fact, if I knew that all I would get is forum mercys derailing this thread into arguing about chain beams and other irrelevant topics, I would have never made it in the first place. I asked in the original post for this not to be derailed into this kind of argument, but I forgot that most people don’t bother to read even a short original post before firing off with their own opinoins and wild accusations.

But this problem is not limited to Mercy and it is a forum structure problem. And the point to understand here is that you don’t need to box people together to solve the problem. But by boxing them together, you’ve destroyed the chance of a constructive discussion.

I agree with you on the first part that there is a forum structure problem at work here (especially considering the other post I made). But I disagree with your second contention because my post IS specifically about one community, the mercy community, and I don’t know how anyone can make a post about a specific community without being accused of “boxing people together.” It also doesn’t help that in this thread, forum mercys have proven my point that it is impossible to have a logic based, rational, non-emotional discussion without it sidewinding into a “defend mercy at all costs even though that’s not what the post is about but I don’t know that because I didn’t read the original post.”

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SIDENOTE

Pointing out a trend specific to a community does not equal criticizing ability to reason? What LOL. I pointed out an objective point. A specific community doesn’t get a reputation out of thin air, it’s based on something (although it’s a stereotype, so it’s never gonna be 100% true). Stereotypes don’t come out of nowhere.

Also, interesting that you decided to quote that clip because all I am doing there is explaining exactly what I find to be the issue: something you specifically said in your comment I should do to produce better forum response results. Instead, it just triggered a lot of forum mercys to attack with wild, unsubstantiated claims instead of responding to the topic at hand.,

[lolojenkins-11431]

I guess you missed the whole thing with 200.000 posts long chain of megathreads where things were discussed in a constructive manner… until some Mercy haters started to massflag it 24/7. Or how people like Titanium and others make researched, constructive threads with a great debate only to be banned from the forums after being targeted by the report mob…

Incorrect and that quote was taken out of context. Please just search “titanium” in this thread and see how many times I mention Titanium and how useful his mega thread was.

And even if we could, there will never be an unanimous decision. We all prefer different things. Even the most broken mess of a heroes have their die hard fans who want then to stay that way - as we know from other games.

Exactly!!! I’ve seen a lot of great ideas (even outside of Titanium’s threads) that instead of having people respond with constructive criticism/suggestions to tweak the original proposed rework/rebalance are just filled with defensive forum mercies (stole that from you haha it’s good) who attack each other instead of coming together to mix ideas, have a back and forth dialogue, and come up with an optimal, viable, fun mercy that the entire mercy community can compromise and agree on. If the mercy community were less divided and worked more as a team, I think the devs would pay more attention to one idea supported by a majority of the community rather than a mass diversity of ideas with people in the community scattered in their opinion of which proposal is best. That’s even in the TLDR of my original post.

[Bogrim-2180]

@lolojenkins-11431

Straight up false. If I wanted to do damage control, I’d change the title.

I’m really starting to get tired of arguing semantics with you. Mostly because it’s just me quoting the exact passages where you did it and it just brings the discussion to a halt.

Respones that say "Please ignore what I said in my title, read this instead." a.k.a. Damage Control.

@lolojenkins-11431

EDIT: This post is hyperbolic. I don’t literally want mercy – or any other hero – deleted from the game.

@lolojenkins-11431

No need to be a condescending jerk. You clearly didn’t read the OP at all LOL. You just read the title and popped off. Here, I’ll include the TLDR and EDIT for clarity for you here:

@lolojenkins-11431

Please read the post before responding. I even included a TLDR and EDIT for clarification. I’ll post it here.

Also, I won’t even begin to pretend to understand the level of hypocriticism in you taking issue with the tone of responses in a reply like this:

@lolojenkins-11431

That’s not what you need to be forgiven for, it’s your passive aggressive, condescending tone of entitlement that needs to be forgiven.

@lolojenkins-11431

Yeah, I wonder where the stereotype that mercy mains are hostile, defensive, and impossible to have a logical, unemotional conversation without insults comes from. I have yet to throw an unsubstantiated insult at you or other forum mercys in this thread. This is where the reputation comes from.

When you constantly post replies like:

Blatant flaming that could actually get you silenced and suspended if people flagged you for it.

@lolojenkins-11431

LOL do you think it would upset me if the most toxic group of people are eliminated from a game? I’ll take “absolutely not” for 500 Alec.

@lolojenkins-11431

Jesus christ this is why I don’t argue with forum mercys.

@lolojenkins-11431

I wasn’t even close to taking you seriously

@lolojenkins-11431

PS @revertmercy you are a horrible troll.

@lolojenkins-11431

Just go to /r/mercymains on reddit and see how toxic the mercy community is.

You’re constantly provocative, which means you invoke provocative replies. This ties into what I said about promoting healthy discussions: If you want to criticize the tone of your discussion, you need to set the precedent. You can’t demonstrate the behavior you criticize and then act like you’re above it. That is literally the definition of being hypocritical.

@lolojenkins-11431

Then what would you call the Mercy mega thread?

A mega thread.

And mega threads are instinctively bad because the discussion does not go anywhere because the conclusions that would advance the debate are simply lost in the sheer number of replies, which the forum itself doesn’t even support (page crashes start to happen around +5k replies).

I would call a Discord server a community. I would call a town or a city a community. Any place where you can consistently interact with the same people is a community. A forum can be a community, but it requires private messages and more consistent contact between posters. Otherwise organization is simply not possible and it simply stays a “forum.”

@lolojenkins-11431

Or don’t post a controversial title and get no views. Pick one.

Let’s round it up with an example since we’re talking about posting in general. This was a thread that I submitted a while back:

Hard truth: One-tricks boost your win rate

The topic of one-tricks is often a hot controversial subject, with everyone usually hating on that one guy who refuses to switch because all he ever does is play Torbjörn/Symmetra. But did you know that bad players actually increase your win rate? When you calculate your actual win rate, you don’t just take a few games as example—you take all your games into account. The hundreds of games you’ve played. In all your games, do you know what the biggest variable is? It’s you! You’r…

It’s not using stereotypes. It is using evidence such as statistics to support the claims. The main goal of the thread is simply to target an opinion, much like your thread, but in a constructive manner.

This is not a means to gloat or say it’s the perfect thread, but since the main point of our discussion is the validity of my criticism of your clickbait and provocation for thread fuel, it is an anecdotal example.

You can tackle controversial topics as long as you support your claims with evidence, at which point people are left with only two choices: either challenge your evidence or build on it—as you see in the nature of the thread’s replies.

This will be my last time defending this point, so if you still do not agree, we’ll simply have to agree to disagree. I bumped your other thread, and it is a damn shame it’s not getting more attention. But as I said before, that is the real root of the problem. The forum structure is simply terrible.

[Loba-11371]

Mercy mains will never be happy

Hi, Mercy Main here (shocker I know!) Im happy with where she is now She’s in a great position shes appropriately balanced

[Storm-11149]

to be fair the crux of this post. The devs “SAID” is about as solid as quicksand at the moment. The team changes their minds all the time. We wont see a revert as as back to exact pre rework but we can see changes that put the character close to that state. Look at other heroes who were put back towards states before nerfs and buffs.

[RevertMercy-1304]

I almost took you seriously for a second.

I’ve stopped doing that a long time ago. Reading their comments in this thread (and the thread itself) and how they are snapping at everyone who brings a logical rebuttal which disproves them, pretty much confirms this.

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~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls

[MerlinBrando-11655]

If only those Mercy mains who quit the game would also quit the forums.