He should rarely be deep in the enemy backline, he should be to the side waiting to force an enemy into an ‘unwinnable’ duel or situation.
Genji’s entire strength comes from his ability to win any duel through mechanically outplaying the enemy, obviously though this is a double-edged sword because while it gives Genji the ability to ‘counter’ any hero it also means any hero can counter him. Dueling a Genji comes down to which player outplays the other, while Genji usually waits for the most opportune scenario to enter a duel that’s virtually impossible for him to lose.
This is what I believe gives the illusion of Genji running around killing everyone without counterplay, the counterplay isn’t the standard “Use X ability to counter Y”, the first step is making sure you don’t let yourself get caught out and forced into a duel with huge disadvantages and the second step is being capable of mechanically outplaying him, this can be done on any hero, with some heroes obviously having an easier time than others (i.e. McCree).
Thank you for saying everything you said. While I do spawn trap almost exclusively as a Genji, I know that I’m not supposed to it. And that I’m wrong for it. But bro, when you’re farming them folks in Platinum and below? Just can’t help it. You gotta get it how you live, and get while the getting is good. I mean, if you play Genji? You should know how it be. You solo-queuing, you farming SR, and you know damn well no one can really step to you but an opposing farmer or smurf of similar or better by SR. You gotta eat them up, bro. Right at their spawn. Gotta make an example, and set a message.
Punishing Genji for helping his teammates finish off kills with his own ability.
Punishes Genji for farming ult by dashing as a disengage & cleave. Seems like an arbitrary nerf that as I said, doesn’t solve any issues and only makes Genji more clunky to play.
So Genji can no longer Melee->Blade->Swing->Dash for a perfect 200 on a target. Again, seems arbitrary, solves zero issues and just makes him more frustrating to miss lethal with than he already is.
EDIT: Makes Nanoblade miss lethal with Slash->Dash on Brigitte, Mei and Reaper. Again, makes him clunky and frustrating for literally no reason.
“Blizzard nerfed a blatantly overtuned hero so we’re going to complain about an objectively balanced hero in hopes of getting that hero nerfed despite the fact whining on the forums doesn’t and never has had an impact on game balance!”
[quote=“WatchMeDrown-1994, post:87, topic:299643”]
Punishing Genji for helping his teammates finish off kills with his own ability.[/quote]
Oops good point. Usually when I suggest that change I also add that final blows would reset it too. So either do minimum X damage and don’t get the final blow, or get the final blow - both would would a give a reset.
Yes, that’s the purpose of it. You shouldn’t be able to get resets by aiming in the general direction of a clumped group and hoping one of your teammates finishes one of them off. That’s stupid and rewards unskillful play.
It solves the issue of bad Genjis being able to reap the same rewards as good ones. Resets should come from earning elims or teamwork, not “oh look a group, let me press shift”.
I love that tech but it’s worth sacrificing to make nanoblade less stupid.
“It seems arbitrary” I literally said why I wanted it. Because nanoblade is too strong. It’s significantly stronger than anyotherult + nano which is stupid.
Yes because that being able to kill them that fast is stupid.
You’re calling every change suggested “clunky” because he can’t kill things as fast as before and get as many free resets as before. Of course that’s going to be “clunky” compared to the insane flexibility he currently has, but that’s just how nerfs work. There’s a difference between making a hero clunky for no/bad reason and making a hero clunky compared to before because they did too many things too well before.
Think this is an interesting point on the matter:
“Brigette exists because of Tracer and Genji… If anyone says Tracer & Genji aren’t an issue the truth is they are because they literally designed like f-ing 5 heroes to destroy these heroes and they’re still good”
I don’t know why people defend Genji as well designed, honestly. His typical playstyle is “Poke until ult, and then use an overpowered and extremely hard to counter ult to kill half the enemy team.” That’s a horrible design!
It’s my experience that most of my games result in toxicity after Genji goes into full melt down because they thought they should’ve have been healed outside the opponents spawn room or some other idiotic positioning.
It’s already bad enough when a target you put damage into gets killed by an ally while you’re dashing to try and finish them yourself, leaving you without a reset because the ability is still in use at the time of the elimination. Honestly, changing the way dash reset works will only lead to frustrating scenarios where Genji gets ‘scammed’ out of a dash reset because of arbitrary changes.
It also punishes Genji for trusting his teammates to finish off targets for him, it’s a team game so I don’t see the issue with rewarding teamplay.
If I’m playing Genji on Numbani Third and pop my blade and swing->dash {X} full health squishy with the intention of letting my team finish off that 30hp target and moving forward to the next one as efficiently as possible I shouldn’t be punished for that.
The changes you’re proposing would look something like this in reality:
Swift Strike does not reset if Genji doesn’t contribute atleast X damage to the kill
If Swift Strike dealt damage to the target then dash will reset no matter how much damage was dealt
If Genji gets the final blow Swift Strike will reset no matter how much damage was dealt
If Genji was X distance away from the target when they’re eliminated he does not recieve a dash reset
etc.
Surely you can see how these changes look completely random, unintuitive and simply lead to the creation of certain scenarios where Genji will infact get denied a dash reset that he should have got, especially with the distance one.
You say it would stop him being rewarded “unskillful” play, but it would also completely kill Genji’s ability to actually use Dragonblade with his team.
I disagree. Mei and Reaper have invulns that can easily be used to avoid the blade and even leave Genji stranded without a dash.
If Brigitte is in range of Dragonblade without Genji having to use dash to close the distance AND not able to stun + boop before he unsheathes blade (because that’s pretty much the only way Genji is going to be close enough to Brigitte) then that’s on her.
Fixed that for you. People liked Brig because she basically removed Tracer from the game. She still is a reliable counter to Tracer currently. People want a Reaper/Bastion vs Winston type of hard counter against Tracer which was always a silly idea.
Apart from being better than all the other dps, heck you can combine some of the dps and they still won’t compare the the high mobility, mass damage, hard to hit, huge survivability hero’s of Genji and Tracer.
If they have a good Trace you can’t even pick way over half the hero’s or you’re hard counterd. Yes you can counter pick but they are all soft counters apart from Brig. How come Genji and Tracer are allowed to practically one clip eveyone and they only get soft counters to them?
Those two are leagues above the other dps. They need to be brought down to eveyone else’s level.
It’s the reason why this game is such a mess with the balance updates. They are trying their best to balance around Tracer and Genji. And it’s not working at all.
They buffed the supports to stop being so vunrable to them. And now all the other dps have a very hard job trying to kill anything. And now they are making stupid buffs to the dps that nobody wanted and are just frustrating. And yet still aren’t good hero’s like Tracer and Genji, and are making 0 impact in higher levels.
Name the dps that have hard counters. Almost none of the dps class have hard counters, that’s not unique to Tracer and Genji.
Tracer isn’t overrepresented at most ranks in pickrate or winrate, that’s just a fact. Genji is hard countered by Moira. Outside of the highest ranks of the game, there is no reason to complain. And at the highest ranks of the game outside of some support mains(who the flankers counter) people don’t pretend like Tracer and Genji are doomsday heroes who are impossible to kill.
Tracer is a high skill hero so at the lowest ranks while she may be annoying zipping around, she’s not killing targets or even doing significant amounts of damage.
The mechanical skill just isn’t there and at lower ranks a character like Moira(who is a counter to Genji) also becomes a hard counter to Tracer as they don’t have the mechanical skill to one clip her. Moira’s hitbox makes it super easy to aim with(which low ranked Tracer cannot match) and she self heals when applying damage. Kills Tracer in 3 seconds flat, 1 1/2 seconds if she catches her with damage orb.