It is, due to the 600 hp buffer she has. She’s able to get away with so much pretty much no other hero could dream of. A solo roaming Brigitte that is like going for flanks and stuff and allows a team to just smash her is an extreme example of playing poorly. Making a bad split second decision, like a slight over extension or something to that degree, that would spell death for almost any other hero, is not a big issue for Brigitte. Again, due to her shield.
I mentioned how basic play, like using LOS, utilizing the main tank shield, etc, etc, which is what everyone does, allows her to keep her shield at very high health and the thing rarely breaks. You brought up “Brigitte wanders on her own” which is not what I talked about. You then go “when I do anything that stupid” which is very much a hypothetical/anecdote.
Shield bash is not really an escape mechanism. Turning your back in order to use it as such is also very risky, esp in this era of Hanzos and Widows and what not.
If a Brigitte is having her shield broken regularly, she’s an extremely bad Brigitte.
Like I said, I almost exclusively play Brigitte. There are plenty of ways that she can be punished for making dumb mistakes.
You said “chasing kills” . What kills are she chasing from behind her main tank’s shield? What makes her getting kills from the safety and comfort of her main tank’s shield any different than, say, Hanzo doing the same thing?
The issue here is that your wording is all over the place. You use terminology like “bad play” and “chasing kills” but when I specifically point out how she gets punished for that, you say you meant she was “playing smart” and staying behind her tank’s shield.
Like, what?
You saying “she’s able to get away with so much pretty much no hero could dream of” is just as hypothetical.
Again, you can’t make broad hypothetical statements and then criticize me for doing the same.
Depends on what you’re escaping. For example, if the most immediate threat to you is a Reinhardt or a Winston, escaping their attack range is worth the risk of turning your back.
Even if you’re being attacked by long-distance fire, it can be pragmatic to Bash around cover.
Or the enemy team is actually fighting her properly. It’s not that hard to deal severe damage to the shield.
It’s an oversimplification of the strength of Tracer/Genji to keep the narrative of “she was designed to 1v1.”
And making a low skill very strong 1v1 hero just to counter high skill strong 1v1 heroes is why Brigitte is a fundamentally flawed hero in terms of design.
I didn’t say she CAN’T. I said how much she can be punished is far less than compared to the rest of the roster. We’re talking about the only hero that doesn’t have a turret in their kit to maintain a positive winrate in Bronze for over a season. The only one in like the entire history of Overwatch.
By chasing kills I was referring within the confines of the frontline and such, such as extending past the Rein shield for a kill confirmation that rounded a corner. I should have been clearer.
She can be punished for that, but because you have to get through a 600 hp personal barrier, she doesn’t get punished to the same degree literally any other hero does. Thus her ridiculous winrates.
Okay, sure. We’re talking about shield health here, and the shield, and that allows her to do a lot that many heroes can’t. Agree or not?
Oh if you’ve got some melee range hero in your face that you MUST get away from, sure. Even then, depends, a bash and boop might be more effective. The boop moves people far.
How is someone managing to put 600 damage into her shield on a regular basis when there’s LOS breaks, corners, Rein shield, etc? In a Rein/Zarya type comp, to regularly be breaking her shield specifically, is pretty rare.
Oh please. Just because Genji and Tracer are hard to get good as doesn’t automatically make anyone good enough to play them.
Both Genji and Tracer can outduel Brigitte, if the people playing Genji and Tracer are good (hint, most aren’t. They want to be and pretend they are, but they aren’t.). But Brigitte makes it not worth playing Genji and Tracer because of the damage reduction armor has and the burst heal she provides to the targets of dive. That’s how Brigitte counters Dive and flankers from attacking her team.
But when it gets down to it, Genji and Tracer do excell in picking off targets and getting out safely. They excell in dueling targets. That’s not an oversimplification, it’s what they’re good at, what they’re designed to do. Brigitte makes it hard for them to kill targets like Mercy, and give them no space to work. It’s a lot of effort to Dive and kill Brigitte, as they have to stay out of range of shield bash but close enough to keep max damage, but they can’t turn their back and Dive the other support because of Brigitte’s burst heal/armor combo.
Most Tracer/Genji not being good and can be countered is something many of us have been telling this forum (with stats to prove it), but not an opinion generally shared by this forum. I’m start seeing more and more support realizing this, but only after Blizzard released Brigitte who can kill most heroes without the play having to be good at all.
Supports. They are good vs supports.
1v1 against other dps, it depends on player skill.
No, not really. There’s a reason why Tracer was the most picked hero of everyone above masters, and why a Tracer smurf is the bane of Quickplay. A Tracer who doesn’t make a mistake, doesn’t die. This remains true even with Brig, but now she has less room for error than ever, and even if she doesn’t die she doesn’t have the same impact with the armor in the game.
Tracer and Genji both have superior mobility to the rest of the DPS cast, and both have get out of jail free cards. So long as they know when to pull back, they can poke at the rest of the DPS forever without much issue.
As for Genji vs Tank, that’s a laughably easy matchup in Genji’s favor. He can easily jump over and around the barriers, stay out of the effective range of all the tanks, and whittle them down with ease.
Like I said, that’s due more to people playing her badly than Brigitte actually being what you claim her to be. I’ve noticed people getting much better at it.
But Bronze is Bronze, so they might always be bad at it.
Then I return to my original point here. It’s ridiculously easy for her to be punished for doing that.
Every hero is “punished” differently. You can’t punish a Tracer the same way you can punish a McCree. And you can’t punish a Roadhog the same way you punish an Orisa.
Brigitte is not a unique snowflake that can’t be punished for what she does. The issue is just that people seem to panic and forget how her kit works. But when I fight someone that doesn’t, they remind me really quickly just how vulnerable Brigitte actually is.
Not to be dismissive, but that seems like a disingenuous question. Roadhog’s hook lets him do more than other heroes can’t, as does Genji’s Swift Strike, Pharah’s jetpack, Bastion’s Sentry Form, Hammond’s grappling hook, etc, etc.
I don’t see the problem with the fact that she, like so many other characters, has uniqueness to her abilities. In her case, she’s meant to be a pseudo-tank, which really can’t be done if she doesn’t have a means of surviving direct fire, even if for a brief time.
Boop requires letting your shield down and standing relatively still for a period of time. Not to mention that it can be wildly inconsistent. There’s been times I’ve tried to boop a Reinhardt that was smacking me around and he either barely went anywhere, someone else got in my way, someone protected him just as I did it, etc.
Again, this is part of the judgment calls of playing Brigitte. Like you said, if I Bash away, I lose stun and need to turn my back. If I try to boop, I drop my shield and stand virtually in place for a moment, and it might not even work.
Well first, you’re assuming that my team even has such a comp in the first place and that they aren’t dealing with other problems at the same time. Yes, I’ve played with extremely dumb Zaryas who didn’t realize that shielding the melee character who has to walk into danger is a great idea. Also, as you yourself have mentioned, Reinhardt’s shield is so big that he soaks up a lot of damage even if it wasn’t meant directly for him. I’ve been in MANY cases where I tried to retreat behind a Rein shield after mine got shattered in seconds by Pharah/Orisa/Junk/Bastion/Hanzo/Reaper/Roadhog/D.Va/Sym or any combination thereof only to have his fail immediately afterwards, and then I’m just dead.
Even if they don’t flat out break my shield, if I see it drop from 100 to 300 HP, I know that taking another step closer is not a good idea. Hell, just the games I played tonight, I had to swap off of Brigitte every single time because I wasn’t able to get close enough to actually charge my Inspire.
And, in case there’s question with how “good” a Brigitte I am, before tonight I had a 66% winrate with her (Career, not Season)–even higher than the average. So I think I’m fairly knowledgable about when she works and when she absolutely does not.
Why would you be walking infront of your Rein shield when there’s damage spam being thrown in your direction? If there’s enough damage coming that way, to break a Rein shield quickly, why would you be infront of that Shield with your 600 hp one eating damage?
Look, you, and any other Brigitte main, are not unique in playing her. I’ve played her tons too. I’ve played a lot of heroes tons over my accounts. A lot in customs as well. It’s not like I am coming from an outside perspective when I talk about these things.
The shield is SO STRONG. When everyone is playing equally, Brigitte’s shield affords her to make some crazy plays and get away with a lot. That’s why she has had an INSANE win rate from Bronze - Masters for over a season. She doesn’t even hit normalcy until GM. Moira got played a LOT through the ladder when she dropped, and didn’t see much of any time in OWL. In GM she was still played a good amount. She never had winrates like this. No one has outside of niche picks and recently Doomfist in GM.
60% winrate with Brigitte is normal. Unless you’re just like really bad with her. The Rein players seem to have the best success with her, cuz they know what their Rein is going through, and can make her personal presence huge and her shield stay up forever. Whipshot like firestreak.
There’s a lot of complaints to the hero, and while I think her kit is pretty balanced, I think her shield health is just taken advantage of too much throughout the ladder. It should be lower. This should mean she stays relatively similar to how she is in the highest tiers, but would address her win rates and crazy value throughout the ladder.
Dropping shield health to like 450-500ish would probably do a lot.
Typically, it’s because I saw an opportunity that seemed too good to pass up, such as an out of position Rein that I could Bash and cut off his shield for a second.
Or maybe it was because we had a very passive Rein that would not help us move toward a flank route (this happens more often than you think) so I took initiative.
Or maybe it was because we were in the middle of a brawl and attacks were coming from multiple directions, then when something went wrong and I tried to fall back behind Rein shield for safety, it was too late.
There’s lots of reasons it can happen.
You seem incredibly hung up on winrates, though. I’m not, because like I said, people STILL aren’t playing her correctly. They’re starting to, but the start of the season seems to be bringing back a lot of people who quit midway through Season 10 and, thus, didn’t learn anything.
The reason I use Brigitte exclusively is because I wanted to see if this whole “fast track to GM” thing was valid. I’ve gained maybe, like, 200 SR during the period I started one-tricking her despite the fact that my winrate is higher than what she’s averaging even at her most successful rank.
I’ve yet to see any reason why her winrates are a valid concern, rather than overblown complaints by people who don’t even understand her kit. (Not you, but people in general.)
Not “60”. 66. That’s significantly higher.
A six percent difference, with more than 100 games played, is the difference between Brigitte’s current winrates and Mercy’s.
I still don’t see any reason for it. Like I said, her winrates don’t scare me.
Teammates who don’t know how to shoot her shield scare me.
Nah I didn’t. I was talking like confirmation kills when it’s relatively safe. Not thousands of damage being thrown in one direction. You can tell rein shield health by the cracking, and communication, there really shouldn’t be a time where you go infront of it when it’s about to break from the damage being thrown at it. That is just bad play that you did get punished for. That’s how much it takes to get punished for it.
Uh… Yeah. Winning is what matters on the ladder. If a hero is having an extreme winrate like Brigitte’s, throughout the ladder, for over a season, that is a huge difference from the rest of the roster and every other new hero there has been. So yeah, I do give it a good amount of significance.
Have a 66% winrate on any other hero?
Ik, your winrate is above the norm for Brigitte. And Brigitte is far above the norm. The normal winrate for a hero, statistically, in gold or plat, is 51%-52%. Brigittes average is around the 56%-58% in those tiers. Way above norm. And yours, even further. Crazy, right?
They should. Then again, why would they if you’re one tricking Brigitte? I unfortunately flex. Lot of Rein and Mercy this season… A lot… People really don’t like playing those heroes.
Devs: Heres a support that is both a hybrid of a tank and a support.
You: Lol, no give the support a paper for shield pls.
Like…really? Thats the dumbest nerf Ive seen on the forums. You wanna turn that tank support hybrid to just a support? 600hp is THAT difficult to take down?
I get that you hate Brigitte but come on. Thats just ridiculous.
Yes. It is. You can’t deny the facts she has a ridiculous winrate throughout ladder. Best way to do that is reduce the shield health. It’s only her own personal shield. It’s not a winston bubble used for team protection that can get hit from spam damage aimed anywhere.
Yet her pick says otherwise. I dont wanna get into the winrate discussion because youre already on it with Succubus.
If you wanna reduce its health, at least 500 and buff inspire for her to heal her team better. She still needs a reliable shield to close the gap between her and the enemy so she can act aggressively to heal. Thats how her healing works (aside from her armor pack) after all.
She has a shield for a reason along with how the way she heals as well. You cant gut her shield health to 200 hp and expect her to play fine. Some of us still want her to be viable and playable.
Nah she doesn’t need a compensation buff. Just shield to 500 and see where she stands. In play she takes either a support or a DPS slot the VASTTTT majority of the time. Tanking is also just space denial, presence, ability to draw focus from the enemy team. Her 600 hp shield that can’t be head shot, along with her close range burst combo, allow her to have an immense presence.
Just drop the shield to 500 and see how it plays out. Well played Brigittes probably won’t feel it. Meanwhile, her winrates might normalize somewhat throughout the ladder.