Blizzard, you can't balance mercy's rez as a cooldown

General Discussion
21

Because they nerfed so much in her base kit, having an Ultimate on her E doesn’t warrant picking her.

See above.

You’ll find a lot of disagreement on the forums on this one. A lot of people think even one Rez is one too many.

Eh? If the situation warranted it, people did just that. Say you have Mass Rez up, and Soldier: 76 died just after he got his ult. Wouldn’t you go for the solo Rez to allow him to use his ult (which you can then Damage Boost) to likely wipe the enemy team? As post-rework Mercy showed, preventing a snowball is better (and far easier) than try and stop one.

As for needing her team to work with her… With Mass Rez, all the Mercy needed, was for the team to play within 15m of each other. That’s about as far as her team’s contribution went. The rest was all on Mercy. With E-Rez, it’s required for someone on your team to cover for you if you want to have even a slimmer of hope at getting a mid-fight Rez off.

With the community’s stance towards supports, this completely eliminates Mercy as a viable pick from Solo Queue, forcing the Mercy player to queue up with someone, or use LFG, because nobody will cover for them, preferring to yell at them for not healing them(because they got killed by flankers), instead.

The problem, is that the general perception is that Blizzard nerfed Mercy’s base kit in order to make room for E-Rez (though it’s debatable whether Mercy’s healing nerf was actually needed, in the face of the buffs the other supports got). I think we both know the true goal was to just get her out of the meta at all costs (which is pretty bad, IMO)

That depends on your point of view. From our (me and a lot of other disgruntled Mercy players) point of view, her current kit cannot be changed in a way to render her both fun to play (most of which is related to her perceived impact), and balanced. She’ll either be ‘fun’ at the cost of balance, or ‘balanced’ at the cost of fun.

On top of that, on the topic of balance, Mass Rez, whether you liked the Ultimate or not, was objectively balanced. She had healthy pick- and win rates across the ladder, with decreasing pick rates the higher you went.

So why was it valid to get her changed before, then? If it’s subjective now, then it sure as hell was subjective back then. Based on this, and what I’ve said above, she should never have been reworked.

Good for you.

For me, the thrill was trying to keep my team topped off, try and keep the momentum going (via Tempo Rez), and the ability to make my own plays, independent from my team. Most people don’t have the luxury of being able to play in stacks, and for a hero to be completely team-reliant…

I don’t. I don’t feel the impact at all, as I have to stop healing for 1.75 seconds, which, back when Mercy still had 60 HP/s, meant 105 health not restored/compensated.

Yes, but to say people who have disliked her for more than a year now are somehow less important than the comparatively few people who do like her… Not saying you do, but it’s an oft-heard thing.

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22

Yep, saw that.

Hm? Really? Because another thing you could add to the list of “exciting things to think about before rezing” would be something like “My genji died on the backline, he has blade, do I rez? Or save it for an enemy push?” Solo rezzes were actually fairly used specificaly on high ranks though.

Never said that.

This doesnt require as much thought as old rez though. Its literally just “Are there any cars runing on the road? No? K I pass” similarly “Are there any enemies around? No? K I rez” Thats literally it. This thought process was already there with old Mercy especially when she didnt havr immunity on rez.

I dont know how you got away with “not playing the game” because climbing with mercy actually requires you to be actively thinking about such things. To adjust your positioning, always be healing and successfuly revive people in the end. I recommend watching Blinkys guide on her. It will very much show you how these things are key on being successful with her.

This is written in the opposite way, im sorry, but good mercys would get a lot of rezzes back then because they had to earn them. Whoever maximized her kit would get them faster and if they used them properly only then would they increase their rez stats. Now its simply handed out to you making it far far easier to get them off. If you look at her stats after the rework she still gets a higher average of rezzes compared to old mercy.

Absolutely. I dont see any reason to keep this going. You will disagree with anything I say because you like her now even if her basic kit doesnt function properly or rather the way the devs imagined it, her being a speedy, super good healer. Im out.

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23

You clearly expressed your opinions and suggestions in respectful manner. Thank you for this.

The last few weeks it has started to feel like you are not allowed to be a Mercy player (in the eyes of other Mercy players) unless you hate playing her, and you will only get insulted when you ask people to please stop talking like they speak for all Mercy players.

24

How is that any different from way back when Ana ran Triple Tank in S3-S4?

Also, most of the people who want Mass Rez back, are willing to have it nerfed, to address the complaints people had regarding counterplay, etc. I, for example, am a staunch supporter of the oft-requested LoS and cast time. Simply going back to Mass Rez, while I’d love that, isn’t the way to move forward. Compromises will have to be made, but I’m sure those can be worked out.

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25

Unless they give every healer a revive mechanic that works like live Rez and Mercy’s advantage is doing it quicker it’s going to be a problem if it remains on cooldown in my opinion.

If it’s good Mercy is the only option. If it’s bad it ties up most of her power in a potential game swing that isn’t viable.

At least as an ult or resource based ability some part of it is determined by the Mercy player’s abilities. The fact that her number of Rezes per match doesn’t really increase with skill tier really has me concerned for her in the long run.

26

Then why was everything fine when Mercy had Mass Resurrect as her ultimate? Problems didn’t appear until after her rework.

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27

Since you’re talking about res, I’m going to go ahead and repost this here. Resurrect trade offs so Mercy can get stock 60hp/s back.

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28

Yeah, 14% less pickrate and 8% less on fire rate than Ana is the “stats” AND Anas winrate equals mercy’s with far more picks.

29

Because it was an Ult, those are generally expected to be exceptionally powerful and only come about when the player has met a requirement.
As a flat cooldown Rez is a mistake.

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30

Ah, I see what you mean now

31

rez on a cooldown needs to go. they could bring back mass rez but with a deadeye like LoS restriction, and without the invulnerability. and some tweaks to avoid the “hide and rez” strategy. i don’t know, something like:

  • mercy needs to have healed 10 seconds before using rez

again. i don’t know, i’m not a game developer. but rez every 30 seconds is op and we all know it. nerfing the rest of her kit to make her unplayable also works, i guess. but it’s less than ideal.

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32

Yea, I get why you might’ve misunderstood me, my first response wan’t very clear.

Gonna edit it to hopefully make it more immediately understandable.

33

its Not broken at all though. If I’m a dps and I get an early pick and see mercy rezzed it I say “cool they used Rez let’s push” I don’t go broken op, as I now one shot two heroes with hanzo.

34

I can’t quote others on my phone, but Mercy’s Mass Res was almost strictly used for 1-2 target resurrects. Mercy on average RIGHT before her rework was resurrecting 6 targets on average. If you Resurrect 2 targets on average, this means you would have 3 total resurrects (the ultimate, not the amount of players) in a game on average. For an ultimate that could be earned within 21 seconds of straight healing, it definitely wasn’t just held for 1 5-man and a 1-man.

Mercy currently on average holds about 6.5 resses. She is resurrecting the same (actually slightly more) targets on average per game than when it was her ultimate. Her stats completely support that Mercy players almost solely ressed 1-2 players on average. If it were larger on average, her stats would support that claim. Before S5 (rework was mid-season), Mercy held an average of 4.5 or so resurrects per game. Again, this info supports the claim that tempo resses were the go-to. Not large resses.

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35

Her base kit was not nerfed until the 50 HPS nerf, which is done not to try and balance out Resurrect, but as I said earlier, in an attempt to balance out her healing output compared to other healers. So Resurrect isn’t burdening any other part of her kit, that’s just wrong to say when all of the nerfs she received were to Valkyrie and Resurrect on cooldown, two new (effectively) abilities that were added to her belt.

Uh, no honestly, unless even more context provided me an even better reason. I never would use Mass Res to bring back one person with ult unless I was absolutely pressed to, the ultimate would always provide me and my team more value if I’m able to revert multiple kills, which translates to multiple enemy abilities having been negated. These niche circumstances do not mean anything, other than the fact that Resurrect on cooldown works much better and more consistently with these situations.

I don’t think most of this game is balanced for solo queue. It’s balanced with the idea that six players will try to work together, and if teammates are unwilling to help their Mercy pick up a fallen teammate, then that’s a bad team and they get bad results for not playing the game the way it’s intended. I don’t think there’s some “stance” the community has against supports, by the way, I don’t know where that really comes from aside from the bias most healer-mains tend to have.

I just want to point out that you don’t even need a teammate for just a slimmer of hope to successfully cast res. I can get mid-fight resses quite often without any defense needed simply by reading the situations of battle, knowing who’s tracking me, and appropriately positioning myself and taking advantage of level geometry. You don’t even need a teammate, but in more organized play, it will be necessary. Just a side note because I feel that people, as they have been, really overestimate what it takes to get a Res off, when it mostly just takes game sense.

I think this is an exaggeration of Blizzard’s intentions, which more humbly put were to make sure that Mercy was no longer overpowered. I don’t think Blizzard cares too much who is and who isn’t meta, they know metas will shift all the time, they just want to make sure a meta isn’t overbearing especially if it’s due to a hero and their overpowered kit. And all the nerfs Mercy saw were, indeed, responses to her being overpowered, not just because she was meta.

It’s not a matter if I liked it or not, it’s a matter of health, and Mass Res wasn’t healthy. Balanced? Sure, but at the cost of Mercy having a problematic kit that severely limited how she could be tweaked in future patches, which is an inevitable outcome in a game like this? Not worth it. And the Mercy we have now, after a lot of work, is balanced, she just isn’t in the meta because other healers are in higher demand.

And even that doesn’t appear to be true, since with the inclusion of Ashe, Mercy has been seeing quite a bit more play because she compliments her so well. So it does’t seem to me that Mercy’s kit is all that unbalanced, it just seems like she needs the right heroes to synergize with and the atmosphere that encourages that synergy.

Because the ability was unhealthy for the game. It wasn’t a matter of it feeling bad, it was the factual effect it had on games. Mercy was encouraged to stop playing the game, whole team fights were reverted and made pointless, victories that would otherwise go to one team definitively instead have to prove their merits again because one hero was effectively getting Starbucks and showed up late to the game, both teams were stockpiling ultimates to use all at once, and yeah, it felt really not good at the end of the day from a lot of different angles.

The ability now, at worst, doesn’t feel good for Mercy and Mercy alone. It has very little negative impact on her enemy team – reverting one kill every once in awhile doesn’t end with someone thinking they were robbed – and it has virtually no negative impact on her team and how they play. This is a huge improvement from when Mass Resurrect was dictating how both teams had to approach the game simply by existing.

This is an extremely bleak way of viewing her ability, which might be the reason the ability doesn’t feel good for you. It’s especially odd that 105 health not being healed – which, if you’re using res wisely, will be a non-issue, part of using res wisely is knowing you’re going to have to stop healing – is apparently not worth immediately restoring an ally back into the game? Which is a minimum of 150 health being restored, potentially 600? I dunno, to me, that trade-off seems extremely worth it.

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36

Except, her competition got heavy buffs in the same patch, which rendered the nerf to Mercy superfluous.

I distinctly recall saying that

What I do not recall, is saying I supported that perception.

We’ll agree to disagree, then.

So it’s alright to punish people for playing solo in a competitive system that’s all about individual performance? Odd. Never had any such issues when I solo queued on Halo’s Team Slayer Ranked ladders. :thinking:

I’ve seen my fair share of toxicity towards support players because of a lost match (regardless of who was actually at fault, and regardless of whether any individual was to blame or the team in its entirety). This most certainly is not a support main bias, although a support main will obviously be more likely take offense to support mains being marginalized vs other classes.

Mercy hasn’t been overpowered since her January nerfs… As I said, the nerf to 50 HP/s was baseless, even more so because it directly contradicts Geoff Goodman’s statement that Mercy should have the single highest healing output of all healers.

Subjective, on the level of “feels bad” to be precise. Now, what did we say about that, again?

I’d go with patently false on this one. Just look at the many suggestions for Mass Rez floating around. If the community can come up with all these ideas, there is no reason why Blizzard can’t do the same. They’ve got the stats, as a lot of people love to say.

And then there’s Jeff Kaplan going on record, on January 25th, 2018, stating:
“We tried to move Resurrection to a secondary ability, and the ability, right now, in current Overwatch, isn’t playing out as a secondary ability; it’s playing out like another ultimate ability”

This alone pretty much destroys whatever credibility E-Rez has as far as being an ability. Given all the restrictions applied to it, and Blizzard’s previous stance on it, by all means, it’s still an Ultimate.

You really should give Why I Have Yet to Not Despise Mercy's Current State a read, as it completely shuts down any subjectivity regarding the Mass Resurrect vs Valkyrie debate.

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37

It is op because like i said there shouldn’t be an ability that results in the man advantage and if it’s on a cooldown it’s like anyone can use this (if they have at least rez awareness), this type of power coming from an ability is too much(also if a junk uses his rip tire on mercy’s ally, if she rezzes him it’s like his ult was negated)

38

Every single hero has the potential to change the man advantage. Why can’t mercy have it too? If I shoot down the tire with hanzo it was negated. And that didn’t even require the use of an ability.

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39

it’s given to her not earned, and (it has similar advantages to getting a pick) she just has to wait 30 seconds so that she can give her team an up advantage, and also I know that hanzo’s can shoot it down but hanzo earned it (or the junk didn’t think about his riptire placement) similar to how junk would earn the kill on the target, but mercy has this impact every fight that’s given for free.

40

That’s a weird argument. If Rez is “free” so are all other abilities outside of ults. Also if I successfully get off a Rez I earned that Rez. Their was room for counterplay. I’m sorry you couldn’t do anything to counter in time.

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