I deranked after a 5/2 with no dc’s or leavers. But hey, let’s say there was a leaver on the enemy team. That turns it into a 4/2 (because you SHOULD NOT lose SR for winning a game, no matter the circumstances.) Is that really any better?
(Also, I, myself, have literally never left a comp game except a few seasons ago when the servers went down, so no dice there.)
The second one even shows a video demonstrating it on a twitch stream. Dang hard to fake.
I play in gold and literally have faced off against people who are masters ranked multiple times. I queue with two similarly-ranked (silver) friends, so maybe it’s an issue of when you’re queuing as a group? Idk.
I am saying you are the leaver and that’s -50 to you. Also your image links me a 5-1 session but does not show that there were not 2 losses before that which again is common to forget. I have done that multiple times because I play a couple after a rank up and then lose and log off because I do not want to keep going. Log on a few days later and then suddenly am on tilt.
Your last one should be simple to prove if it is happening so frequently. All you need is someone Masters on THAT role. Being Masters on one role and Gold on another does not actually surprise me.
Also fun fact, again not to defend the system that I hate, if you go 5-2 you gained about 65SR under the old system which means about 1/3 of the time you would not rank up. About 15% of the time you would not rank up going 5-1 under the old system. What I have never seen is myself go 5-2 and have the system tell me I am lower than when I started.
The video itself shows wins from a previous set (because the current set only showed a certain amount of wins) so it’s obvious there’s not losses in there that weren’t being accounted for.
I already addressed both possibilities in my OP.
I have, and I did. I was playing tank. Went down from Gold 3 to Gold 4 after a record of 5/2, no, I never left any games. You are welcome to think I’m lying, but I’m not.
To add to the bits above about gaining or losing more or less sr than normal for wins/losses…
I believe in OW1, there was some adjustment to the sr gained from wins and lost from losses, based on whether you team was favored to win or not. For example,
The MM determines both teams to be identical in skill and predicts a 50/50 chance for both teams, your SR would be adjusted by a base amount, lets say 20.
If your team was favored to win 60/40, you might only receive 16 sr for that win or lose 24 for that loss.
If people are actually going positive and de-ranking, or going negative and ranking up, then that old system may still be in play.
Edit: Also potentially people getting dc’d for a -50 and forgetting about it.
If yes, why should loses from previous cards be transferred to new progression card? That’s not how the system works. Even if you do 0-15, your next card will not be 0-15, it will be 0-0.
In my screenshots, you can see that all last matches I have won, so there’s no space for 2 extra loses. And if you imply that I left 2 matches, then why my entire season stats show 2 loses only, not 4? Nothing you say here makes sense, tbh.
And the final argument here, blizz themselves said that some completed matches are counted as “abandoned” which means they are counted as “lost” while they are not.
Oh I loved the video because I had never seen that information above the card before today. I actually thought people were referring to either the stats page or the recent games page. To that end I am actually curious if that is anything more than a display error because as I said above I have never, and I have played a LOT of ranked games, and I do not know anyone who has, but to be fair its not exactly a common topic of conversation, gone 5-2 and lost rank.
I would guess if it were possible the reason I have never seen it is because I am above Plat and since the system is simply a copy paste from OW1 with the ranks hidden, I would wager performance based SR exists below Diamond. I do not have as much experience with that system, at least not since 2017, but from what I remember from alts you used to be able to gain upwards of 30+SR on a win and lose 11-12 SR on a loss, even on a non new account, provided you played above the average of your hero in a win. Conversely you could lose 30+ SR in a loss and gain 11-12 SR on a win if you played poorly in a loss/win.
Knowing that the SR is basically the same as OW1 if you are sub Diamond and played horribly for 7 games it might be possible for you to lose 5-10SR more than you gained and if you were borderline I guess that could do it.
Its funny though that the only realistic source of the problem is the part of the system that existed in OW1. This is why, despite the fact that the current ranked system is awful, that these reasons are not the key reason why. These reasons are largely holdovers from OW1 if they exist or display issues. The ranked system has much bigger issues.
While possible, it’s extremely unlikely if the matchmaker works decently, no? Like, for you to only gain 10 SR from a win and lose 50 SR from a loss (roughly, of course) you have to play in lobbies with SR differences of over a rank or so. Your team would have to be like low Silver and the enemy team mid Plat. On top of that this would have to happen consistently enough to reflect itself in a 5W-2L scenario.
Usually the difference is pretty small, instead of 23 MMR-equivalent SR you gain/lose 24, maybe 27, rarely 30. Or at least it should be idk if Blizzard screwed up there since we don’t see any data and my own rank moves exactly as expected, 5W-1L means I rank up, 5W-10L means I rank down
I have seen that but I also struggle to buy into it. They have also said win streaks are not a thing anymore, which they did years ago but one or the other has to exist for the story I am about to tell to make sense.
I tell this story a lot because it is relevant to a lot of situations (including here now) but in season 2 of Overwatch I decided to take a break from Tank and DPS to learn Support. I focused largely on learning Zen (but also played Bap Kiriko and Ana as needed) but was stuck for quite awhile in Plat, which is why I always say it is not impossible for someone to be highly ranked at one role and much lower at another. I had about 60 wins bouncing between high and low Plat but I could tell I was improving at every aspect of Zen (and the others to a lesser extent).
Now to the relevant part of the story for this topic. I was at 2-2 in placements but feeling really good as I had popped off in all 4 games and the losses felt very narrow. Suddenly I went 3-0 and went from Plat V to Plat III. Then went 5-0 5-0 and went Plat III-> Plat I-> D4. Then went 5-2 and went from D4 to D2 to finish up my crazy run in D2 (I then hovered for a few cycles improving slightly before jumping to Masters in a similar way).
Now the two things I take away from that are: if you get better then you will climb and it should be impossible to go from P5 to P3 going 5-2. The math simply does not add up and I didn’t think much of it at the time but I was popping off in a huge way. Win streaks have to exist for the latter skill up and skill based probably exists for the former.
Now they have tuned a lot of nobs and made a lot of changes over time so it is hard to tell what has changed and what has not, and also the most dangerous thing in coding: what has changed that you were not intending to. I watched them in an interview talk about how they simplified the matchmaker because they realized it was making things too complicated and they realized they could simplify things (something that every algorithm writer can relate to) but I do wonder if that simplification applied to the gain step as well.
I think they said the opposite, actually. Let me look. a minute passes
To improve this, we added a streak modifier system that tracks a moving average of a player’s win rate. When a player wins more than 50% of their matches, we start to increase their MMR faster.
I’m Masters on support and Plat on DPS, too. It definitely is a thing, yeah. I always find it odd when people say that it’s not.
Since numbers are so hard to know, please use the assumption this post is based on: +20SR for a win and -25 SR for a loss (very similar to how it used to be for gold/plat in OW1)
If you win 5-0 there’s a high chance you will climb a rank possibly 2 depending on your SR at the beginning and end of your placement card
If you for example start at 84% if plat 3 (SR 2784) going into a fresh card
Go 5-0
You end up lowest 84% into plat 2 (2884) most 10% into plat 1 (2910)
If you “Derank” after winning 5 games you really are not being truthful at all. Sorry but given the system is based on wins/loses you MUST have had some losses somewhere in that card
If you go 5-5
Your rank may go up or down around 5% assuming a win/loss/win/loss or vice versa
That’s because you’ve always lost more than you gained so you have to make up up.
If you have a loss streak you may derank not because the game hates you but purely because your loss streak lost you more SR than your wins gained you. It happens.
You go 4-0
You end up losing 6 games in a row afterwards
You go from internally being Plat 1 (2910 SR) back down to low plat 2 (2810)
Game isn’t trying to rig you, you just lost the SR
And if you like any normal person has a very mixed bag of games
where it could be 2W - 2L - 1W - 2L - 2W
Your SR will fluctuate a lot and it could rank you or derank you depending on how your games go, the gaps in the wins/losses and streaks.
Evidence: This is how my entire experience has been in Overwatch since they announced the changes. I have streaks I go 5-0 and climb. Streaks I go 5-5 and stay the same or a bit below. Hell I had a 4-0 win streak only to go 4-12 losses and deranked 2 ranks. And one where I lose 20 games in a row (had a 15 loss rank card) and then deranked 4 ranks.
The biggest flaw the system has right now is the 5 wins and 15 losses card thing because you don’t see regular SR updates. What they need is an option to either keep the cards OR turn on the option in settings to do per match SR increase/decrease that goes +20/-25 under each card so you can work it out.
Secondary note: That bull about you being better than x% of players isn’t actually a thing. That is your SR. So if you’re plat 3 and your ranking is “You are better than 74% of players” you can assume your rank is around 2774. (just for those who didn’t know)
This is partly the anti “smurf” system they have in place and partly to fix the problems where people’s MMR vs their actual MMR before they reverted it was like out of whack.
It’s also why the 4-0 curse exists xD (It probably doesn’t but it feels like it.)
I don’t think it’s a bad thing. Because if you’re serious about climbing it can be a way of letting you experience how the next bracket of play is going to be. If you’re not ready for it then obviously you’ll lose.
What needs to be questioned here is how many games it does this for because sometimes that’s how the stomps feel they happen.
Those stomps aren’t designed to make you lose but the more you rank up the faster the gameplay gets. If you compare bronze to plat or Plat vs GM you’ll notice there’s a huge difference in how the game plays.
This is purely down to just being better at the game so those “Stomps” could just be you’re not ready for that tier of game just yet.
revert back to ow1 ranked EXACTLY how it was before, dont do a blizzard classic and try to change it to something new and “exciting”. it was perfect just bring it back
That explains the last jump but doesnt really explain the first one as 3 in a row is hardly a streak and considering the standard SR gains for OW1 without performance boost were ±22 (I got to know those quite well while learning Tank and DPS) there is just no way to reach 2 tiers (or 101 SR minimum) with those numbers. In order to reach 2 tiers you would need the numbers to be ±34 SR per game.
Now one of the weaknesses of these hypothesis are we effectively dealing with a black box hypothesis. Basically we can add in data (5 wins and some number of losses) and we get the output in our rank but we cannot see what happens to cause that output. We just see how the system calculates say 5 wins and 2 losses or 5 wins and 0 losses and have to try and extract a hypothesis from that. I do not mind this aspect of it so much (though there are other reasons I prefer the old system that are similar to it) but it does make it rather difficult to discuss what exactly is causing rank ups when we cant see the impact of individual games upon it.
Afaik there is also a velocity now. So if you go 1W 15L first, you have a high speed downwards. This is included in the next adjustments, so winning is just slowing down but not going up at first.
MIGHT be the reason and it’s not intuitive of course.
This is why I will never play comp with a serious mindset to actually play. I would only pick comp open queue if I was maybe drunk or wanted to just screw around if I was say bored out of skull.
I think so too. But it’s not the only confounding factor. The matchmaker determines ahead of time if you should win or lose the game. And if you should win, but lose or you should lose but win then the swing for you is bigger than if the “expected” result happens.
And I think (speculating) that the performance might be directly compared to your counterpart. Like you vs the enemy tank. Or you vs the enemy support/DPS that “matched” with you. Because it is trying to match every single person on your team with someone from the enemy team in a 1 for 1.
idk if Blizzard screwed up there since we don’t see any data and my own rank moves exactly as expected, 5W-1L means I rank up, 5W-10L means I rank down 
a minute passes 
