Ah yes, another healbot strawman thread. Show me where these healbots are cause healbotting is a mentality that is only in gold and below.
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Shoulder check as much as you can. All I can say
I’ll try, but this is a closed beta. You either face people so much worse than you that your whole team is like 12 and 2 or more, or it’s flipped. I got jumped once walking from spawn as ana and dead before I could even turn and release a sleep dart. Feelsdeadman
I know this stuff happens in ow1, but the strafe speed from dps passive is overkill. They can peek and engage you when you’re walking back to team and pop out instantly.
Just lock the nails and go aggressive. It is really the only way to have solid fun with the game unless you are in a small stack where playing Ana/Zen/Bap will feel decent. Yeah, I know playing Moira isn’t your idea of fun, but I am sure you can make your own fun.
I’m guessing that’s what I have to do. Next time I play ana I’ll be very aggro and be on the hunt for flank route dps.
As a support, I don’t think that Blizzard should cave to “healbots,” or that they fights should go on forever. But I also don’t think that as a support I should exist purely at the whim of the enemy dpses either.
Are there healbots whining about a lack of shields and peel? Absolutely. Does that mean that there is not a systemic problem with supports that needs to be fixed? No, it does not.
The dps passive speed boost just means that the dpses can both outrun and outgun the supports except for Lucio and Moira–which are borderline OP at the moment and probably need adjustments such as Moira’s self-heal clock not starting until she exits fade, and not stacking Lucio’s self-heal with his healing boost might be enough to make them reasonable.
But the rest of the supports, with the possible exception of Mercy and maybe Brig, desperately need some sort of survivability tool added to their kit.
The issue with the queue length on the beta is in part because the supports have no new shiny toys to play with, but the real issue is that half of the supports are a borderline their pick at the moment. Zen being the poster bot for that problem. Why play in the beta when you’re limited to one of maybe three heroes depending on the map, when you can play on the live game and actually enjoy the game.
I’ve spent the last couple of days grinding support on the beta, and it has not been fun. I’ve adjusted my playstyle nine different ways from hugging my team to mimicking my dps play to flanking my butt off, and other possible solutions. But at the end of the day, if I want to do anything but respawn, I have to go back to Lucio or Moira. And it’s not because they are my best support heroes.
So enjoy fragging the supports. But if they do not get fixed, you’ll going to have fewer and fewer of them to kill.
So just nerf the broken DPS 
Looking at you, Sojourn and Soldier.
While burst dps are strong, they have downtime between shots, making some sort of counterplay possible. Soldier feels like a lazerbeam to me since he was buffed in 08/2021. Wasn’t a big issue in OW1 but in OW2 he runs so fast you can’t even punish him for using healing station. He’s just gone. You have to headshot him or anti.
I think sojourn feels fine, but I haven’t fought any good sojourns yet.
Also soldier is a burst dps built into a consistency kit.
I really hope OW2 tweaks or gets rid of blanket passive effects. (Tank one is fine)
Yeah, if you are playing Ana you have to play angles near your team now and constantly play against the flank angles. Like, even way more on live cause in non-organized play on the beta people run around with their head chopped off and don’t watch flank angles or anything.
The solo que experience is going to wildly vary from game to game.
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ok genius, 
like what do yall want support individual impact and playmaking be in OW2?
I defs have posed this question to you Green before and have yet to receive an answer. and I this question OP and everyone else that likes to boast “just git gud supports and not heal bot” ignoring inherent kit design conflict with the OW2 direction.
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Then I don’t feel like your gamesense would be too much of an issue. I’ve played on fill for most of my time on the beta, and I have zero issues on support. Things like soldier pocket on high ground are not things support have agency over, plus the amount of high ground flank angles means you need good awareness. If you’re getting hit by mercy pocket + dps, I dont know what to tell you. Otherwise, just account for all the pieces on the board. “Has that genji been seen in a while? I should probably check for him walking out of spawn.” Stuff like that. At best, just go for the rng sleep with ana or hyper sustain on moira.
Imagine thinking it is about increasing healing numbers. 
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It’s not an either/or. Soldier is definitely op, I’ll grant you that, but that dive problem exists among more than a few of the dpses.
I am fine with supports having strong carry potential IF it’s locked behind a skillful interaction (say something like sleepdart) and not a button press.
The harder the skillshot is to land, the greater the reward.
Very hard skillshots I’m fine with, in principle being autowin for the support player’s team for that specific teamfight.
Stuff like Rez tho needs to go away.
I am not biased unnecessarily against support as a role, it’s the same humans who often also flex to DPS, being biased vs WHOLE ROLE would be ridiculous, it’s the people who want infinite reward for little effort that I dislike.
riiiight and how’s that working out for zen rn in OW2 beta 
i.e. currently a support 100% reliant on “skill shots” (his primary and volley) to deal with flankers and hypermobility, yet currently is 100% flanker/dive/hypermobility fodder because the gap in the engagement interaction is that huge in favor of hypermobile/dive tools (namely in how easy it is to throw someone’s aim off via mobility compared to trying to shoot at them with a precise shot).
and that still doesn’t actually answer the core philosophical question, do you want supports’ impact and playmaking to be kills or life saving?
just “skillshots” doesn’t answer the question as it’s just saying “something hard to aim with” which contextually is correlated to “not feasibly being able to do what the skillshot is for”. e.g. before with the zen counterexample, “skill shots” for killing, yet clearly he’s struggling hard against hypermobile threats and divers because he’s inherently less capable of dueling them realistically because killing is locked behind “skill shots” and killing him instead is far easier.
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Right, with everyone so spread out his ult is gonna be trash, I’m worried lucios ult will go in the same basket. I’ve asked for help so many times as mercy to get a peek n my teammate just spams fall back.
It also seems harder to play at max beam length when pocketing a dps, harder when pocketing 76 esp when there’s no team play.
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Tanks? More mobility and sustain. Damage? more damage and speed. Supports? die rn.
Also, pretty sure the issue of healers keeping the fight going on for ages is because you’re incapable of killing people with basically no escape abilities or meaningful damage.
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Staph! The burn is to severe. You’ll kill em
Zen is not even close to what I consider a skillful support, for starters he could use damage falloff because in current OW1 you need to risk very little as Zen to get good value.
Once he gets DMG falloff and his “I win” E button press that makes your whole team godlike is locked behind some form of skillshot, then we can discuss buffs.
Anyway, I can agree that in principle Zen is bad in OW2, but I am trying to separate here power level and inherently good and skillful design.
Let’s compare for example Zen vs Cassidy:
Cassidy:
- dmg falloff from 20 m
- no self heal
- has a 1 shot mechanic (flashbang + whatever follow up you prefer)
- no way to amplify damage
- 140 DPS
- 225 HP
- somewhat situational mid-tier ult
- has awkward hitbox
Zen:
- no dmg falloff
- self heal for 3/4 of his HP that kicks in after X seconds of not taking damage (I’m tempted to say 2 but I never was a guy who spends a lot of time on OW Wiki)
- has a 1 shot mechanic
- +25% dmg amplification for the whole team if you focus the same target, often a tank (and in OW you should be focusing the same target, it’s the general principle of the game)
~100 DPS (125 with Discord Orb) with no falloff - 200 HP
- a lower top tier ultimate
- can heal 30 HPS on top of everything
- 0.3m projectile size (Hanzo, who many think shoots “logs” has 0.2m for reference)
- has awkward hitbox
Now I know you will say “it’s 2 different roles”, but it doesn’t matter. It’s very easy to see how Zen is overtuned and, unless he is forced to fight at close range, none of his weaknesses matter.
If they reduce his projectile size to 0.2m, and for example he starts having DMG falloff from 35m (I understand he is a support so I don’t expect him to be as much of a frontliner as Cassidy hence why the greater range), then I can consider him skillful and not overtuned and can approach any buffs to him with a more open mind.
whatever support players prefer though I guess nobody wants to be “the savior only” and support players probably like to get frags too so I think going forward Support as a class should go roughly in the direction of something like Sage from Valorant (more utility than DPS, and some forms of healing, but no speed abilities or burst damage abilities).
I have no conclusive opinion on Zen, my suspicion is that he is underpowered in OW2. But him dying could be the Zen player doing mistakes, or the hero being weak. It’s hard to separate one from the other and you need to have an open mind about it (from both sides). And you need also to consider that +25% TEAM damage is A LOT so he should have some weaknesses, if you want the +25% team damage for the team, you should be protecting the Zen player.
This- and if the guy thinks supports are op in OW1, he simply doesn’t know how to aim at em and pressure them, let alone bait out abilities and kill the squishes.
I am in full agreement with you.
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