šŸ’” Bastion ISNā€™T being forgotten, heā€™s being ignored

the buffs that bastion honestly got since the great iron clad nerfing was a reverse turret spread, yeah it means that Bastion can over time on a target provide more DPS but since the armour nerf the buff has been pretty much negatated in my personal opinion.

if you cannot live long enough to place bullets on a target then those bullets dont mean anything. but im still stubborn enough to figure out ways to be an effective killer a Bastion.

Ah shoot, Iā€™m glad your making the most of it.

Bastion is feeling extra squishy of recent, I think itā€™s just the playerbase skill level is generally increasing over time and Bastionā€™s vulnerability in sentry mode is fixed. Every other hero can get better at A-D strafing but sentry mode that just isnā€™t an option. Even in recon mode where Bastion can move, his gigantic hitbox means A-D strafing has to have a much longer period to the point where itā€™s just nowhere near as effective, youā€™re not changing directions at a rate thatā€™s too hard to track.

What if Ironclad was moved from being a Passive (that only activated in sentry mode) to an attribute of Self-Repair that is active whichever mode Bastion uses self-repair (so in recon or sentry mode), similar to Roadhogā€™s Breather. This would improve the gameā€™s internal consistency as the self-repair has that visual indicator Bastion is repairing and usually whenever a hero is subject to damage reduction there will be a visual indicator like how they glow blue when nanoboosted or Orisa turning gold when under fortify or Roadhog billowing yellow healing gas.

This could allow ironcladā€™s damage reduction to be much better, as good as Roadhogā€™s 50% damage reduction. Bastion and Roadhog are about the same size after all.

The problem with Ironclad is you had it WHILE SHOOTING, so you could be healed by another so you can keep attacking and survive too many damage trades. This lead to ironclad being nerfed to a rather annoying barely significant 20% damage reduction. Iā€™d rather have a significant damage reduction that had that greater protection balanced by sacrificing the ability to keep attacking, reloading or reconfiguring.

This makes Bastion way more consistent and easier to plan out both when playing as Bastion and playing against him. Itā€™s way easier to factor 50% damage reduction whenever you see the self-repair visual-effect than ā€œwait, whatā€™s 80% of 70 damage, then how many hits would armour reduce damage?ā€. -50% is just ā€œhalf the damageā€.

Yes, this would mean Reaper does only 70dps to a Bastion so that he does nothing overall due to the healingā€¦ but the Bastion would also be doing nothing because heā€™s just healing, not shooting, not reloading, not reconfiguring. This is a fair stalemate that Roadhog exploits as well.

I genuinely believe that on top of this you could change it so that Bastion had 100% of his health be armour as armour is so weak now. This would make sense as Bastion isnā€™t a so much armouredā€¦ Bastion IS armour. Itā€™s a hero made of thick steel girders. This would also go such a long way to compensate for his huge hitbox which is as large as Roadhog yet roadhog has 2x the healthā€¦ but none of his health is armour.

Still, only 4 tank/DPS heroes now have all their non-melee attacks reduced to half by armour. So rarely would 300 armour be equivalent to 600HP

100% armour would compensate for the lack of 20% ironclad in Sentry mode so that Bastion was only slightly weaker, so for example killed in a helix rocket and 12 shots rather than a helix rocket and 14 shots from Soldier. 5 hits instead of 6 from Storm arrows, Torb or McCree. But if you can begin healing in time youā€™ll be ā€œhealth stableā€. You have time to think about and make a quick decision but not just a lizard brain reaction response.

There is a problem with that. Bastion is required give up moving to accomplish this task. Hanzo has higher survivability due to being able to disengage so quickly as well as greater range and a stronger ultimate. Team fights are more than just the teams, there is also the motion around the map and someone like Bastion only slows the team down. Heroes like Symmetra and Torbjorn have kits that can deploy turrets that functionally do the same as Bastion without filling a hero slot (referring to the turrets not the hero) and offer other uses for a team.

Hereā€™s the second problem, losing out to other heroes in a 1v1 scenario. What you are suggesting is the dependence of a second hero to help Bastion deal with a hero that he is supposed to counter as a tank buster, yet there is quantifiable evidence that it may not even be the case. Granted we are talking about a niche situation of Bastion and Orisa being played, but it reduces the value of that high dps if you are not able move around to adjust where the damage is coming from, especially when there are walls and varying degrees of elevation. Kogā€™Maw can get away from the funtional problems that plague Bastion by virtue of being able to shoot from over walls and having greater effective range than other in his class for short periods of time.

TLDR: yes, Bastion has survivability problems, I agree he needs disengage options. His ultimate has not fundamental problems. Bastion cannot be substituted with Torb or Symmā€™s turrets nor do they even play similarly. Orisa is Bastionā€™s toughest tank and part of why I support a 50% damage reduction on self-repair.

Hanzoā€™s disengage is quite good and Bastionā€™s disengage isnā€™t good enough, yes, there is improvements to be made for Bastionā€™s disengage, but itā€™s not a fundamental loss because Bastion ever sacrifices mobility. Bastion is currently dependant on Self-Heal for a disengage, that could definitely do with a big buff.

Something like reshuffling Ironclad so that Bastion got a far larger damage reduction but only when using Self-Repair would do so much for that disengage. The disengage may be hunkering down to resist an initial burst of damage or as part of an escape. Bastion obviously isnā€™t supposed to be as fleet footed as Hanzo, but he could be able to take more punishment before crumbling.

This is good because it naturally balances around Bastionā€™s damage, and doesnā€™t tie his survivability with his immobility.

The high damage is tied to his immobility, bit his survival is tied to self-repair which both heals damage and reduced incoming damage.

Hanzo has a different ultimate.

If they have shields and canā€™t avoid the dragon (or canā€™t see it in time) then it is very powerful.

But very often Bastionā€™s ultimate is better. Say if you have shields and moira pops her ult sheā€™s moving at 9m/s and healing at 50HP/sec, a single direct hit from a one-hit-kill rocket shuts her down instantly. A dragon sheā€™d probably sidestep.

If Zen uses transcendence, virtually nothing can defeat the 300hp/sec healing of that but 205 burst damage will.

Bastions rockets can be great when youā€™re just coming under way too much fire from snipers, Iā€™ve quickly ā€˜cleaned houseā€™ by turning the tables suddenly on the snipers who were raining down fire from beyond our effective range.

Bastionā€™s ult is a great complement to his Sentry mode when switching to recon just wonā€™t do it.

Despite quoting me on 450 DAMAGE per second here you are trying to pass off 56 dps turret as being functionally the same. Even all three of Symmā€™s turrets is 66% less damage than Sentry gunā€™s damage. They donā€™t even function the same as turret are low damage lock on, no aiming component.

Of all the important aspects of these elements, only one way do they ā€œfunctionā€ the same in that they are ever stuck in one position on the map but after that they are functionally totally different.

I learned this the hard way when I tried to flex to Torb thinking heā€™d have a lot of skill transfer.

There was virtually no skill transfer.

The slow setup time of the turret was abysmally bad. This functional difference of Bastion deploying in sentry mode in 1 second compared to three seconds PLUS the flight time for Torb turret meant it was fundamentally different from Bastion. You could quickly set up in response to changing situation as Bastion, not with Torbā€™s turret.

On top of that, how there was no way to quickly(reposition a Torb turret. If a Torb turret was being overwhelmed it was unavoidable that youā€™d have a 13 second downtime from the last turret being up before the next could even begin firing. This functional difference means all your game-sense as bastion is totally incompatible with Torb. You cannot just rotate around to adjust your fire.

Symmā€™s turrets are so quick and easy to destroy yet it takes 30 seconds for all three to come off cooldown (as long as Mercyā€™s Rez) and their range is so short at 10m. They are fundamentally different from Bastionā€™s sentry mode, trying to consider how to use them the same is as absurd as trying to play Tracer the same as Rein.

I think you misunderstood. When against Orisa, Bastion canā€™t stay shooting in sentry modeā€¦ that doesnā€™t mean he loses the fight. If youā€™ve broken her shield but have to run, you havenā€™t lost, youā€™ve contributed hugely to the team fight but youā€™ve gotta fight in recon mode now. You can win that fight in recon mode but you cannot win it in sentry mode.

And Bastion does much better against other tanks, he just isnā€™t as good against Orisa as non-Bastion players assume.

Bastion is the perfect antidote to Hammond and Winston, heā€™s more than a match for DVA (though she can easily force a close range fight). Bastion melts Zaryaā€™s bubble and her HP super quick. If Bastion can begin fighting Rein or Roadhog from beyond about 20m then heā€™ll win fights. Yes, even if Roadhog lands a hook. This is tanks doing their job, they are making spaceā€¦ but Bastion means they canā€™t keep making space forever.

Bastion is definitely a tank buster.

Itā€™s just Orisa requires a partial disengage.

One thing that would change the tide would be my proposal for Bastion having Ironclad replaced by 50% damage reduction while self-healing and his HP being 100% armoured. The 1 vs 1 duel would then be like this:

  1. 0.0sec to 2.0 sec Bastion deals 900 damage to shield and Orisa deals 192 damage to Bastion
  2. Shield breaks and Orisa pops fortify, Bastion begins self heal animation
  3. 2.0 sec to 2.5sec Orisa deals 16.5 damage to bastion, who heals nothing in this time due to the heal delay, Bastion has been reduced to about 90hp at 2.5sec
  4. 2.5 sec to 6.0 sec Orisa deals 115.5 damage to Bastion but Bastion heals 262.5 damage leaving Bastion at 237HP when fortify times out.
  5. Bastion begins shooting again and in the next 1.0 second wipes through Orisaā€™s 400HP while in the same time Orisa is able to deal only 96 damage to Bastion.

Now the duel would be one that is mathematically impossible for Orisa to win.

Unless she manages to get her shield down 3 seconds before Bastion begins shooting. Bastionā€™s HP dips to a minimum of 90hp, Allowing Bastion to take about 90 damage before be begins damaging the shield.

Bastion can do that though.

Itā€™s 0.5sec to go from sentry to recon, this is only costing you 2.75m of movement in a given time, more than made up for by how Bastion will kill quicker and has a longer effective range against tanks. Also the 1.0sec recon->sentry time doesnā€™t cost as long if you jump and transform mid air you only spend about 0.2 sec on the ground before you begin firing.

Kogā€™Maw is nothing like Bastion.

At all.

He has no relevance to this at all. He barely even has any relevance to Overwatch except in the broadest gameplay concepts.

Torbjorn have 250HP.
Bastion have nothing, they buff everything for counter GOAT but they forget Bastion. Also Soldier does 20 damage lol.

4 Likes

I love all those changesā€¦ but

poor bastion

350Hp Bastion please.

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Soā€¦ iā€™m never the one to jump to conclusions, but Bastion is now more useless than an aimbotting lucio.

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Sure movement penalty on orisa buffed but soldier 20dmg what.

riperino.

If you lovely people here havenā€™t seen, the new hero has a 20 second cooldown ability that makes anyone inside of it immune to DEATH.

Which means that the first literal engagement with a Bastion involved sends you back to the spawn room every time.

No questions askedā€¦

With everything this guy does, you either have him or you lose.
Looks like time for me to sink a LOT of hours into Anthem and Minecraft.

Better than resurrect

Better than literally everything in the gameā€¦

Itā€™s ā€œNo we winā€ On a 20 second cooldown.

Dā€™Va bomb? Nope! We win! Bastion? well there goes your push every single time you respawnā€¦

You know what really makes me kinda mad.

This

Orisa

  • Fixed a bug that made Orisa very difficult to knock back while she was firing her Fusion Driver

but theres no Halt fixesā€¦

Even tho she moves faster the Well map is gonna be a pain.

:grimacing: Iā€™m really afraid for the game hereā€¦

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Itā€™s a blatant bug that Iā€™m surprised was JUST fixed

Theres many other blatant bugs that were untouched once againā€¦

Made so many comments and posts about few already but these gets no recognition.

I think Baptiste is being overhyped with his immortality field. Itā€™s good, but there are plenty of counteractions to this. Crowd control is easier to land with players grouped up in a confined space. The enemy healing while inside it may go to waste if you can apply constant pressure while they are in the field. Iā€™ll need to take a look at applications of his kit, but to be honest, looks balanced (could use some tweaks here and there).

Nopeā€¦ nopeā€¦ any amount of time when an enemy cannot be killedā€¦ which we havenā€™t really had while that enemy can DO THINGSā€¦ Any amount of time, means that the same lethal force can be shoved your way, without a chance of harm to the enemy.

This is about to break the normal game.

Its mercy all over againā€¦