💔 Bastion ISN’T being forgotten, he’s being ignored

[BliztDreams-2743]

Why do all the conversations happen at like 3am?

Time Zones.
Round Earth.

[GrantMan-11889]

Everyone move to EST, this is a minor inconvenience to me

[Zaydar-21654]

Come on we all know it’s FLAT.

[BliztDreams-2743]

Don’t go down that route, people will believe you.
You have no idea the kind of argument used to “prove” the Earth flat.

[Zaydar-21654]

I watched many many flat earthers debate, it’s hilarious.

[GrantMan-11889]

The problem is he doesn’t do great damage. Or at least, it’s very inconsistent damage. And that’s why he relies on his team so much, because if he were on his own, he doesn’t have the damage to defend himself, and Ironclad isn’t strong enough to let him survive until he can kill the attacker. Here’s a thread if you don’t believe me

[KatarinaV-1704]

No, I’m not.

You all even know it. You just don’t like it presented in this fashion.

You lament the loss of his capability for that, but then want to deny it when it doesn’t suit.

If you want to label that as a baseless accusation, fine. I can understand you seeing it that way.

But it had more basis than your ranting about me saying he was OP. Mine was an opinion on what you’d said, yours was a manufactured concoction that I never even implied.

And none of that was a personal insult. You can not like what I said but I was being civil.

No I don’t, you just want Bastion to be F tier even though he isn’t OP to serve your own agenda, because you’re probably too lazy or lacking skill to deal with him.

Again, I’m sorry you don’t know how to deal or counter a 0.10% pick rate hero, but that isn’t an argument.

Is it lack of knowledge or just ignorance?

I’m pretty sure you’re the one who started pushing the insults first, I thought we both knew what we were doing.

Those are personal insults. And I’m not ‘pretty sure’, I well know who started making them.

I disagree, I know you’re trying to make that point but I just don’t see it as you do. I don’t think that the old Sentry took low skill, I think it took just enough skill to balance it out. Sacrifices all movement for huge DPS, I don’t see the problem with that.

You’re still interpretting it into something it wasn’t about. I’m not saying it ‘took low skill’ as some broad stroke about Bastion. I’m saying it was too rewarding of low skill play. They are two different things.

His skill FLOOR was too low with old Sentry. (And his ceiling not high enough despite it!) That’s what made it possible for him to be oppressive in lower rank play but falter at higher ranks.

Okay so you’re not complaining on balance terms but just in your own “I don’t like it though” terms, so what now? Your opinion is yours, mine is mine. What you were initially doing looked like trying to debunk our claims that bringing back old spread was a good idea, or something. You can think that, but I can also think otherwise.

sigh

It is on balance terms. He was badly balanced with old Sentry. His skill floor was too low. (problem 1) His skill ceiling was not high enough. (problem 2)

If you want a more general statement, beyond the fact that old Sentry was actually better at ‘spray and praying’ than current (which was my only point). Then alright…

The answer to those issues in my opinion is not to reintroduce problem 1 in an effort to resolve problem 2. Because we’ve already seen it DIDN’T. So he needs to be buffed in other ways. Other means that a player can display their skill.

I do think there’s room for some Sentry buffing in there. Just not a full revert because of that skill floor issue it creates.

Okay, so we disagree, end of story.

And again, I’m pretty sure you’re the one who entered the “you know it but you deny it” type of slimy stuff.

And again, you can tell yourself whatever you like.

The intention was meant in the vein of ‘I believe you actually realize this on some level, but instinctively object to it because you don’t like it being presented in this way.’.

So perhaps I could have worded it better, but it was by no means slimy. At least I’ve had the integrity to say I could understand you considering that baseless and made an effort to clarify the intent for you.

You telling me I want him to be F tier when I’d obviously said no such thing, then calling me ‘to lazy or lacking skill to deal with him’ — that was a personal insult.

Don’t even try spinning it around or acting like they are in any way comparable. I never personally insulted you or your ability. End of story.

[GrantMan-11889]

Duh, the Earth is accelerating at 9.81 m/s² upwards… I mean, yeah, we’d be going way faster than the speed of light by now, but just ignore that part…

[BliztDreams-2743]

Where’s Chibi when we need someone to say

Please, keep it civil.

[Zaydar-21654]

If you want to label that as a baseless accusation, fine. I can understand you seeing it that way.

But it had more basis than your ranting about me saying he was OP. Mine was an opinion on what you’d said, yours was a manufactured concoction that I never even implied.

Having more basis doesn’t mean having good basis, and what I said there is my opinion on why think like you do. Don’t try to separate mine as some unreasonable blabber while trying to make yours into a productive argument/opinion.

And yeah, I was being civil too.

Those are personal insults. And I’m not ‘pretty sure’, I well know who started making them.

If you want to label that as a baseless accusation, fine. I can understand you seeing it that way.

Glad we can understand each other.

You’re still interpretting it into something it wasn’t about. I’m not saying it ‘took low skill’ as some broad stroke about Bastion. I’m saying it was too rewarding of low skill play. They are two different things.

Oh, now I understand. Anyway, I still disagree, the damage he could do was warranted because of his other downsides, ESPECIALLY not being able to move.

His skill FLOOR was too low with old Sentry. (And his ceiling not high enough despite it!) That’s what made it possible for him to be oppressive in lower rank play but falter at higher ranks.

His skill floor before was the exact same, maybe even harder than now. I haven’t played him in so long, I forgot how he feels exactly.

sigh

It is on balance terms. He was badly balanced with old Sentry. His skill floor was too low. (problem 1) His skill ceiling was not high enough. (problem 2)

Okay, so it’s a design statement, not a balance statement.

The answer to those issues in my opinion is not to reintroduce problem 1 in an effort to resolve problem 2. Because we’ve already seen it DIDN’T. So he needs to be buffed in other ways. Other means that a player can display their skill.

That’s a very tunnel vision way of looking at the issue, the only thing you’re paying attention to is his Sentry form, while being completely oblivious (Or straight up purposefully ignoring) the rest of his kit.

“Hmm, Bastion was in a strange position before…”

Why?

“Sentry form!”

How can you be so sure?

“Sentry form!”

The intention was meant in the vein of ‘I believe you actually realize this on some level, but instinctively object to it because you don’t like it being presented in this way.’.

So perhaps I could have worded it better, but it was by no means slimy. At least I’ve had the integrity to say I could understand you considering that baseless and made an effort to clarify the intent for you.

I don’t know what type of culture you come from, but that’s straight up throwing dirt when you say that about someone in an argument.

“You know it, but you deny it because you want to sit in your own false reality.”

That’s an insult to a persons integrity, so I understand if you didn’t intend it that way, it’s all fine, I’m not holding it against you, but don’t try to do a 180 and say “Oh I’m all innocent and you should be ashamed”.

[KatarinaV-1704]

He can not like my opinion, but I’d been civil.
I’d in no way directed any personal insults toward him.

That’s the point.

There’s a huge difference between him taking offense at something I’d said that was not personal, and making a blatant direct insult. I’m not putting up with that garbage and then trying to put it off on me.

[Zaydar-21654]

Again, I’m sorry if you don’t think saying “You know it, but you deny it because you want to sit in your own false reality.” to someone wasn’t an insult, if that’s your definition of being civil, let’s be civil then.

FYI: Repeating “it aint a directed personal attack tho” doesn’t make it any less of a directed personal attack in its actual reality.

[BliztDreams-2743]

Zaydar, wanna go do some rocket jump training ?

[Zaydar-21654]

Oh my lord the timing, I was just going to reply to Katarina once more before going off to sleep for a few hours.

We do have a lot to experiment though, for example the payload maps, to check if there is any spots to jump to from the payload.

[BliztDreams-2743]

It’s what… the 3rd time in a row the timing is perfect ?

[GrantMan-11889]

You should be able to jump into the window in the second half of Junkertown with a good jump from the payload I think. I can’t remember if I jumped from there, or the little high ground near the window…

[Zaydar-21654]

Yes, I usually go to sleep around 10am-3pm these days and then wake up like 3 or 4 hours later, my sleep schedule is screwed.

[Zaydar-21654]

And I’m waiting for Katarina to finish typing because he takes like 30 minutes each message to finish.

[Zaydar-21654]

I’m sorry but the way you said that is bugging me a bit, are you uh… Uh… Uh…

Suggesting I’m lying?

[BliztDreams-2743]

Not at all, just checking.
Believe it or not, sometimes I get linked to people.
For exemple, I’m always coming on my PC at the exact same time as a friend of mine.