Bastion is being forgotten

[Lightweight-21402]

I mean if you look at most heroes in the game their self sustain is their mobility . I shouldve re worded my post better. My opinion is that he should be looked at as an actual tank, heavy but can still move very slightly, obviously not like flankers and potentially could be the slowest hero in the game to again engage and disengage situations of pushing or defending an objective. That would make him even harder to deal with.

[Cynical-11100]

I think they look at bastion and want to make him better. I mean they tried once, but I think they struggle with him because of what they said when they talked about the torb rework. They want the hero to be fun, but with heroes like that it is hard to make them fun and not be oppressive to all tiers of play. Which is unfortunate, because he was one of the characters that drew me to the game. I am terrible with him lol, but he is a cool concept.

[Nuu-21571]

Yes, because he’s situational, doesn’t mean he’s bad.

[Terranguard-11978]

If he’s so situational that he only works 2.16% of the time there’s a problem. Oh and that’s only the chances of him getting picked, the chances of getting a specific map or situation in which he works on like Junkertown puts those numbers into 10ths or 100ths of 1%

[ChibiFox-11511]

Bastion’s not “Situational” There’s a BIG Difference between Situational, And Almost never viable in any normal game setting. ever.

If we could switch heroes ANY TIME we wanted, At any moment, THEN You could call Bastion “Situational” But no, we cannot magically have Bastion at the very moment that one would be needed.

To play a character, means being in any situation that comes up, While you are playing them. not just in the 1% Of the time that you will be needed.

[Kryton-1519]

I’m not gonna lie

Bastion most likely will never be in a much better spot than he is now if he’s going to have a “sentry” mode. It’s very niche and while it can work it forces players to play around you other than the other way it’s supposed to work in this game.

Bastion is never to likely be exciting to play unless they essentially gut the way his ult works / sentry or empower them both and make recon terrible.

Does any of this sound fun to you? It sure looks boring to me at any rate.

[Terranguard-11978]

You have 3 hours on Bastion so obviously you don’t find him fun anyways and 272 people think buffing sentry would be fun and only 41 (including you) don’t from this post: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759286904?page=1
I have met almost no Bastion mains that do not want sentry buffed in some way.

[PharHǝntoi-1208]

My megathread is kind of dying though I was the last to post and it fell into obscurity and I can’t bring it back up.

Yeah I haven’t seen it in awhile but I’ll just keep the thread open in a new page so I don’t have to dig for it again if it gets lost.

Also thx for the quote advice.

---

Now for some QQ replies:

Bastion is a hero I want to get better at, but he just…isn’t that viable.

Shouldn’t matter. You need to know how to plays out now, so you can see how weak he is (along with his few strengths) and learn his basic fundamentals like playing as a team, proper positioning, and aiming.

Play him now, then when he gets buffed you’ll be more effective at him.

He’s in this hot mess because people wanted him buffed in the first place, but didn’t know how to play him and expected an ‘ez no aim’ hero when he’s completely build around it AND positioning.

I started playing Overwatch after all the Bastion nerfs were up so I don’t have full context on this but IMO I think he’s fine as he is now.

He’s not fine. Prior to his rework, he wasn’t in any meta, but he was at least usable in most situations and maps. Now after his rework he’s only used in pirate ship, with is a stretch, since his list of counters is ever-growing.

He needs light buffs, not to be hit with the buff bat like he was back when he got reworked, which lead to a crippling blow from the nerf hammer.

I tried to play him a lot the other day and the reason I dropped him was simply because it got old fast after playing with him for awhile since you’re doing the same thing over and over again.

If you just sit and spray then yes, it gets old. But ask me or Terranguard any of the countless times we’ve stopped a riptire, or got airshots in Tank mode.

You have to actively learn him to have fun with him, unlike most heros where you are effective and engaged from the get-go.

At least with other like Soldier 76 you can still derive some pleasure from COD sort of gameplay.

Is that what you think us Bastion mains/players pick him for? You’re so wrong.

The problem is, his self-healing is just a needless ability since he could be easily healed by the teams healer. I would remove that ability and add something new, better, more fun.

He’s already down an ability since RMB or E (idk which, since I don’t use default keybindings)

And pocketing is never the solution, because Pharah’s balance rides on pocketing for relevancy and outside of it she’s as fragile as a 1000 year old vase.

Just add 30% extra damage reduction when healing and he is fine. This will boost his survivability.

I wouldn’t mind, but keep in mind he has 20% in Tank/Sentry too, so adding 30% will make him more OP during the days of 35% Ironclad since he now has 50% DR when sentry+healing, meaning a Dva nuke would only do 500 damage to him, but her ult is also radius-based. If you start comparing other ults that don’t do a whole lot of damage, like riptire (400 damage) it wouldn’t be enough to kill him, which was his problem back with 35% Ironclad.

It’s sad to think Blizzard just ignores every good post about serious problems about specific heroes

It’s because of how irrelevant he is. Is fanbase is small and mostly quiet, except for Terranguard and me are causing a stir.

I don’t want to blame the Devs for talking in other threads that are light-hearted, but it’s a completely different feeling when he’s not even mentioned in the T-tier report where he’s actually in the worst possible spot in this game, and has been there far longer than Sombra, as his only relevancy was 1 week of 35% Ironclad.

I’ve always thought they overdid the Iconclad nerf - it was necessary but they went too far.

I think a 25% Iconclad version (i.e. +5% from now) should be tested as a short-term easy change to see what effect this has.

No, no more IC. He needs his damage compensated at the very least. They took away 1 leg from his stool, and now players like Terranguard and I are trying to balance on just 2 legs. It’s near-impossible except for that 1 impossible spot where we still somehow make him work.

So is Mercy.

Mercy’s only been there for a month now, maybe longer. When her 1-year anniversary is here, then we can talk about her. Bastion didn’t even have the luxury of being the meta for 6 months, he only got a week.

Ironclad has a pretty strong stacking effect with armor, it’s a bit more than a simple +60 hp in most situations. (And it’s actually +75 if you do the math)

Still doesn’t excuse the fact that his damage wasn’t compensated when his IC got rightfully nerfed.

A tool you use for certain situations. Whether you agree with this approach is up to you.

Come back to me when you have more than 5 hours on him because right now you’re speaking like you know how he plays out, when you just barely played him.

And the word you’re looking for is ‘niche’ and Bastion’s niche is barrier busting which is a lame way of saying Dive is better at avoiding barriers than Bastion is at destroying them.

Barrier busting isn’t working for him. Stats prove it.

They need to increase Tank Mode’s Iron Clad to 35% damage reduction, and decrease the spread for Sentry Mode. They do not need to add headshot back to Sentry Mode. If they just decrease the spread it should be fine.

Either way, his damage needs to be upped.

I’m guessing Blizzard is putting him in the same place as Mei as in they don’t want him to be overly popular because he’s very overwhelming to play against. Even when I see a bastion now I’m triggered.

That can be said of any hero though. That doesn’t give a free pass to keep them as the worst hero in the game for 2 years now -1 week of 35% Ironclad.

Soooo Brigitte is coming out, can heal and give him armor…I foresee much defensive cancer comps

Lucio can also heal.

The armor won’t do much when you can shoot at a Bastion, miss him, and it still registers as a hit.

She works better with tank-strong comps than she does with Bastion. And no, Bastion won’t be a counter in that situation because we already have DPS.va and mowing through 3-4 tanks is impossible since his damage got gutted back during his rework.

So I am guessing none of you have seen a good bastion player single carry an entire team single handed? I think he’s balanced enough.

Seen, and doing are 2 completely different things. I’ve seen Tracers, Genjis, Zens, and Dvas carry in the OWL. And if you have proof of someone carrying with him above masters then please link me to the VOD. I’ll just say this right now, if it’s Kolorblind then just note that he also wants buffs for Bastion because he’s still in an awful state.

Plus anyone can carry when they have a Mercy rod up their bottom. Bastion is no exception.

Not just bastion got forgotten, but 3/4 of the hero rooster.

The f-tier heros at least got mentions from the team. Bastion hasn’t even been mentioned since his rework that failed.

Bastion is played a lot

Nope he’s the least picked hero in the game. Even if he was used in very specific situations (like barrier busting) he wouldn’t be at the bottom of the roster.

The only buff he needs is a total rework of his ultimate, because a bunny hopping tank is not fun to play.

…

Against?

Neither is teleporter hunting or trying to flank behind and destroy the shield gen camped outside of spawn on 2CP.

As someone who literally has the Bastion gold gun and has played him since launch, I agree he needs a buff but maybe not a change that would change how people play him. I think a little buff is needed, like they are doing to Mei, just to make him better.

Same.

I don’t want him buffed to become easier to play, because that’s what his rework did and it only BROKE him. I simply want him to be better at what he does, to be compensated for the TTK that became imbalanced when they nerfed IC.

Like I said, I don’t want him to be a destroyer of worlds. I just want him to kill and not be a sitting duck while he tickles the enemy.

They’re never gonna buff him again because everybody hates him since he “Takes no skill to use” and “is a POTG bot for people looking to farm them”

He’s been forever tainted by the Open Beta, and it shows.

That’s not going to stop me or a few other from making it loud and clear that he needs to be looked at.

She’s still played way more than Bastion.

Actually since her nerf that gutted her, she actually shows balanced stats. The only part her nerf gutted was her ‘fun’ aspect.

The Mercy mains still play her and despite what people want to think about her, she’s balanced.

Plus Blizzard didn’t gut her like they did Bastion a week after his rework, and she went on to lead a 6 month meta.

My thoughts on the best way to help Bastion is to rework his Recon mode into something that’s a viable alternative to his Turret mode.

Which will never work out because Soldier will always be better than a recon Bastion. If you make recon better than Soldier, then Bastion becomes the new Soldier and Soldier falls into oblivion.

Recon needs no buffs, sentry needs the buffs.

*and Tank.

They nerfed it when his IC got gutted, so now the 150 extra armor is just a memory of when Tank was a viable ult.

If they gave him some type of mobility (on cooldown) while being in turret form so he could engage and disengage fights that could help him out…

Does nothing for him though. No point in engaging when he can’t secure a kill on anything other than a Dva diving him and is standing point-blank in front of him.

Bastion isn’t fine? I thought he was.

Nope. Least picked hero in the game, and many more holes in his stats that say he’s in a bad spot.

They want the hero to be fun, but with heroes like that it is hard to make them fun and not be oppressive to all tiers of play.

His rework made him oppressive. Before that he was balanced.

Bastion most likely will never be in a much better spot than he is now if he’s going to have a “sentry” mode. It’s very niche and while it can work forces players to play around other than the other way it’s supposed to work.

As long as Ironclad exists sentry will always seem scary and oppressive. Before his rework, it was the same way, but with him being fragile it meant that you either killed him, or he killed you. Now, you can stand 20 meters out and shoot back at him and he either has to use up his heal, or reposition and lose his %20 IC meaning he’s stuck in a .5 second animation and can’t heal either. It’s death/soon to be death. It’s a lose/lose.

Bastion is never to likely be exciting to play unless they essentially gut the way his ult works / sentry or empower them both and make recon terrible.

That’s completely different from him being UP. Sure, I can live with the fact that hes not liked, but HOW he plays out is atrocious. Just because he’s not liked shouldn’t exempt him from being balanced for those that do play him.F

[Nuu-21571]

Ok guys so here’s a tip : don’t always try to kill people in turret mode.

His dps in robot mode is comparable to Soldier’s. Sure he has less mobility but he can heal himself more.

At lower ranks (plat and below), I’m fairly certain you can play him on a lot of maps and do just fine.

I’m all for bug fixes but otherwise I don’t see any reason to touch him and I guess I’m not the only one since he hasn’t changed in a while.

[Vánagandr-1765]

Bastion… unfortunately is the victim of several issues. The net result being… he really doesn’t fit the game very much.

One of his biggest reasons he has problems is the same reason Reaper has problems. Why ANY “Tankbuster” will always be low tier.

“Let’s make a hero, who is great at fighting tanks. A “tankbuster!” as they are so called.”
New tankbuster gets released. They make him great at his job. He can smash tanks. They make him slow to offset his power, but still, lots of power.

The DAY he gets released to PTR, I’d say after a few days, but Brig was adjusted and had numerous complaints in less than 24 hours so the first day he is already getting complaints of being OP.

Why?

Because he can do large scale damage to kill a tank before they can be healed. That’s his job. One problem. What stops him from doing this large scale damage to Tracer? Or Genji? Or ANY other hero under 500 HP. Sure, he is so slow he can only kill one hero every few seconds, but that’s all he needs. He just needs to kill who is the biggest threat at the time, and more often then not it’s NOT the tank.

So how do you do it? How do you make a hero that can take out tanks consistently, without also being a threat to the golden children? Or making them too strong against the low HP heroes?

Bastion other issue is… at his very core Bastion is a turret. A powerful, non-moving machine gun. That doesn’t fit most of the time in OW, beyond “protect the president.” This is a game where movement is important. Taking away or changing his turret playstyle would change the very essence of the character. Too much power, and suddenly everyone dies in moments to him. Too little, and he’s a mosquito.

[ChibiFox-11511]

So let me get this straight…

We SHOULDN’T Use the Machine Gun, That this character is DESIGNED AROUND To get kills?

I’m sorry, but… Next argument?

[Kryton-1519]

You’re right I don’t, but I’m trying to feel for you guys because it’s pretty easy to counter Bastion too if you coordinate it. Bastion simply dominates those that get frustrated in a pirate ship setup or other cheese which is why the community dislikes him more than he should. It’s sorta like getting killed by a hanzo scatter but you can’t do anything with that whereas Bastion you can… he just gets hated anyway.

If you want sentry buffs with recon nerfs then power to you but I think that’ll only make him even easier to be countered, especially a sombra.

No clue in the world what can be done about his ult, it’s pretty strong imo but maybe he can get a second ult so he can decide which ult to use? I mean he’s sort of like a transformer so that could be interesting.

[H1st0ry-2750]

I am really shocked how many really bad comments are here. Wow.
I am a day 1 bastion main that mained him hard (onetrick) till the change… and then never again (ok this season I started playing him VERY often just for fun… and you can see it at my SR…)

1. Sentry needs a buff: Headshots are very good because it rewared aiming. The spread also. They destroyed both so… at least buff one of the points.

2. Tank needs a buff: We all know that it is a suicide button. More defense (35%IC) and bugs fixed (maybe even remove self damage!)

3. You can’t say that he should be bad because he is opressive. Give him a higher skill to be effectiv (sentray revert!!!) because everyone can play him right now…

4. There was never a rework that failed so hard! Even mercy is PLAYABLE right now after a hundred of nerfes!

5. Situationmal heroes are all in a bad spot. Why? Look at Genji, Dva, Tracer… and then back to bastion and the other. Thats not fair.

[willthegreen-1549]

• Tank transformation should be quicker. 1.5 seconds is an eternity in Overwatch.

• Fix tank shot bug.

• Tank needs added armor or health; he transforms into a TANK yet gains no survivability.

• Tank needs a golden cannon.

• Sentry mode should be capable of headshots.

That’s it. I’m happy.

[Terranguard-11978]

Now, you can stand 20 meters out and shoot back at him and he either has to use up his heal, or reposition and lose his %20 IC meaning he’s stuck in a 1.5 second animation and can’t heal either.

BTW switching from sentrymode is only .5 seconds. Tankmode is the one with 1.5 seconds.

[Gojak-1569]

I think something as simple as bringing back crits in turret mode would help a lot.

[Terranguard-11978]

The devs are quiet on heroes for months on end, even almost a year. Also did you not check out that thread I linked? It has almost 300 people in favor of old sentry.

The majority of people who care enough to comment are in favor of a buff. I have never seen an “anti bastion buff” post that gained any traction and there aren’t many.

[PharHǝntoi-1208]

Ok guys so here’s a tip : don’t always try to kill people in turret mode.

Thanks, I’ll start utilizing it right after you pass more than 15 hours on him, AND prove to me that you can play him, effectively, at a Diamond level.

His dps in robot mode is comparable to Soldier’s. Sure he has less mobility but he can heal himself more.

Nope, all wrong. *he can heal himself whenever, assuming that his resource meter is at least 1 bar full.

Also ‘robot’ is called recon. Good to know I’m taking advice from someone who doesn’t even know what his modes are called.

At lower ranks (plat and below), I’m fairly certain you can play him on a lot of maps and do just fine.

Which I’m not at.

Bastion… unfortunately is the victim of several issues. The net result being… he really doesn’t fit the game very much.

That’s not an excuse. Otherwise we have to leave the other F-tier heros to rot since they don’t fit in either.

Mei isn’t well liked.

Sym and Torb have skewed winrate.

So you can’t just apply that standard to Bastion.

Even if he isn’t compatible with this game, why is he left in such an atrocious and unplayable state?

You’re right I don’t, but I’m trying to feel for you guys because it’s pretty easy to counter Bastion too if you coordinate it.

Which any of us are fine with. With all of our playtime on him we figure that anytime we pick him, we are going to be target #1.

But. That. Does. Not. Exempt. Him. From. Being. Viable.

Open ended question: Why do people think it’s Ok for him to not be viable based off of subjective factors? He’s unfun to play as or against, so is any other hero in the game. I don’t like Genji, but I at least know that he exists and needs to be balanced regardless of if I play him or not.

It’s sickening, all these responses

That’s it. I’m happy.

Jesus Christ, so am I.

Thank you.

I’m always happy to seem some reasoning and Bastion players.

BTW switching from sentrymode is only .5 seconds. Tankmode is the one with 1.5 seconds.

oof idk where the 1 came from

[Terranguard-11978]

Because he can do large scale damage to kill a tank before they can be healed. That’s his job. One problem. What stops him from doing this large scale damage to Tracer? Or Genji? Or ANY other hero under 500 HP. Sure, he is so slow he can only kill one hero every few seconds, but that’s all he needs. He just needs to kill who is the biggest threat at the time, and more often then not it’s NOT the tank.

So how do you do it? How do you make a hero that can take out tanks consistently, without also being a threat to the golden children? Or making them too strong against the low HP heroes?

He is supposed to be an anti everything, not anti tank. Before they slapped “tank buster” on the label of his nerf he was good enough to fight most any hero but was also rather squishy for being unable to move. That’s perfect for that type of hero. He could fight any hero, but could also be killed by them.

[Nuu-21571]

When did I say that? I said you can also use the robot mode more often LUL LUL LUL

Also, if you can read correctly, it’s not the correct account linked to my profile. I’m master and yeah I don’t know the names of his forms just like I don’t care about the names of some abilities I use on heroes I play daily, what’s your point?

Anyway, I don’t really care at all about what happens to Bastion, I just think he’s fine as he is ¯_(ツ)_/¯