No. They’d need to reduce his survivability to do this. If you disagree, I don’t think you understand the implications of how powerful this would be.
Allowing him to snipe with IC Sentry would be madness.
I think this is fair, since it’s an ult.
This seems more like bug fixes, so naturally I agree here as well.
If by “Snipe” You mean having functional bullets, that hurt people who stand in front of machine guns.
Are you implying it’s already not powerful vs those who ‘stand in front’ of him? At close-medium range, he still does good to incredible damage.
So no, by snipe I mean “being shot from VERY far away and dying quickly.”
Oh? Like… Across a capture point?
Like, from one high ground to the other?
THAT Needs to be Bastion’s effective range, Even with headshots.
It isn’t.
This IS A Machine gun we are talking about.
Bullets don’t just magically get less dangerous the further away you are.
And Bastion fires Very large ones… VERY Fast.
When Soldier 76 is better at holding an area at a longer range, with a higher More reliable damage output than a SENTRY Bastion, That is a problem.
ALSO.
We need to outright FIX the fact that Bastion can be so hard countered up close… Like, by ANYONE.
It affects all hit-scan.
You seem to know this already, but just incase you need a reminder as to why it’s not magic:
Let’s look at the spread and lethality. If Bastion is shooting 30 rounds per second, then the it makes sense that there’s a spread; I might also assume the size of the bullets, but I don’t know so I’ll leave it at that.
Unless you have a source with their size, that is.
All this said, we’re talking about balance, not pure reality. I see this as “give and take.”
With Ironclad:
Balance-wise, I think both of these options are at least reasonable.
Without Ironclad, sure, give him back his old damage/spread.
Without Ironclad, sure…I agree. But again, this argument could be said of McCree and Soldier as well; both of which lose effectiveness from the examples you state here.
When Bastion can shred a tank or shield 3-5x faster than Soldier as well, you mean? It’s almost like you’re comparing apples to oranges.
You mean he has a large hitbox? While I’d be ok with seeing that reduced a bit, I’m unsure if your hyperbole is helping here…
Oh no… Good sir… i mean being legit “Out damaged” At point blank range, Especially if the player has good Aim/Tracking… A Reaper or Roadhog or even Junkrat can “Out damage” you, by just being closer to you.
That’s the strategy… Get Closer To the machine gun.
And yea, i’m basing the size of the bullets off of the fact that you can literally see 50cal bullets being reloaded into his gun. X3
Otherwise, if you had read anything i Wrote in this thread (Which would be nearly impossible, with the size of the dang thing) You would know that i HATE “Ironclad” And wish to see it burn in hell.
My Perfect Version of Bastion, would be reduced spread, 200 bullet mag, and headshots.
The kind of Bastion that actually kills you, if it looks at your head, from three meters away.
(Don’t EVEN Get me started about corner spamming…)
And yea… If a Widow takes the Right high ground in Numbani first point, and i’m on the Left Highground, she should At Least Take enough damage, to reconsider standing out in the open… Ya know what actually happens?
She forces you to move.
As in, She literally takes the area away from you, just by being about 30 meters away.
No chance at even laying down cover fire… No chance at sorta kinda hurting her… Nope.
Just gotta give that area away, there’s a scary sniper lady across the point from you.
Do you know how disheartening it is… To have put well over 100 hours into learning the ins and outs of this hero, only to be killed from three meters away, because a Hanzo corner peeked at you three times?
Like, i give up MOVEMENT To deal higher damage… WHERE IS IT?
So long as they keep Recon the way it is, I’m not against a revert of Sentry. Ironclad seems great in concept, but I do agree that it’s too easy to get displaced, and the reduction doesn’t actually matter at that point.
Odd thing is, when I’m Bastion, I have similar issues, yet when I’m against Bastion they tend to kill me from moderate distances quite quickly.
As for being outdamaged close-range to Reaper/Hog/Junk, I think that’s fair when he’s in recon. If they get the jump on him, then can win even if he’s in Sentry though…which again, makes me question the usefulness of Ironclad.
What I might like to see, is Sentry getting a similar spread mechanic as Soldier, except tuned for his BPS; burst fire to kill at far range, hold to shred shields.
as for headshots…hm…still unsure; again, this’d depend on whether he keeps Ironclad, but if they remove ironclad then they’d just give him normal spread full on anyway.
Well, have you ever seen old Bastion in use?
I have a Very interesting clip i could show you… I believe it details quite well, the power Bastion used to have, over out of place, or overstretching enemies…
Not to mention Very poor play… Such as being genji, and not even jumping when attacking a Bastion…
I’m logging out of the forums for a bit now, but that’s up to you. I’ve definitely experienced old Bastion, but the memory is indeed foggy.
I have shown some of you here this clip before…
But it will always remain one of my all time favorite clips i have of my old friend:
I Actually remember this game quite well… the genji was always completely behind my team… He was being quite loud, and we literally always found and killed him… the other mistake he was always making, was that he refused to jump. I guess he was just a rather new player, but the fact still stands that Bastion SHOULD Be able to protect himself, like shown.
(Assuming the Bastion player has the reflexes and gamesense, to react quickly enough.)
Most of the shots that landed, were headshots. So in a real world game nowadays, you would Barely ever be able to recreate such an interaction… Unless the genji is Trapped right in front of you or something, lol. X3
They’re actually 50-cal armor-piercing rounds. Usually used by snipers to tear through literal tanks. The rounds themselves are each about as long as my forearm.
I feel personally attacked.
As I recall, the devs recently said that they wanted to improve a hero’s strength rather than diminish his weaknesses. Yet they clearly did that to Bastion, they lowered his lack of mobility while self sustaining but reduced his main DPS mode to a shield shredding ability.
As such, Bastion feels like a shell of what he used to be and needs to be improved ASAP.
I would agree with this except for the fact that the way physics work in Overwatch means that you wouldn’t be able to jump as high with rocket jumping.
You are right GrantMan,
People just don’t play enough Bastion to even understand his capability…
It is still a shock to so many Widow, Hanzo and Pharah mains that Bastion could effectively kill them in tank mode from across the map. They didn’t think that Bastion is a threat to them from being so far away until they get ulted in the face. Even pro players would say things about Bastion specs that is just not true. Look it up on Youtube:
Will Bastion Become Meta Again? | Overwatch Pros Explain ft. Manneten | Florida Mayhem
What bothers me the most in the current game play after the sentry gun nerf (50% increase in spread) is that Bastion can no longer protect his team from Pharah. His nerf is a huge buff for her and she is now largely uncontested. You’ll have to have an amazing McCree in order to shoot her down. With a Pharmacy combo, that is not even an option. The rise of Pharmacy is a direct result of Bastion being crippled to the point where he can no longer do his job. Not to mention Blizz keeps farming out his job to others. Now Hanzo is the new tank killer after Tracer pulse-b been nerfed. Why would anyone pick Bastion when others could do his job better? Not to mention he has the most counters in the game.
At his current state, Bastion is just pitiful and a laughing stock in the game. Everybody say that he is OP, while he is being consistently shuts down. Every Junk ult has his name on it in solo ult along with solo Pharah’s ult in your face. The best thing you can do to protect your team as a Bastion is to stay far away as a magnet for enemy’s ults. Use him as a distraction for your enemy to waste their ults instead of having it unleashed on your team. It is a good trade, but no fun at all for the Bastion mains.
It is sad really when his job as a tank killer has been taking away and that all he is now good for is as a ult burner. Nobody wants Bastion around because he is pretty much useless. He just couldn’t do his job with the nerfed sentry gun while others could do his job better.
Hanzo is a better tank killer than Bastion
Junkrat is a better tank killer than Bastion
New Symmetra is a better tank killer than Bastion
They have him the role of “Barrier buster and tank killer”, the second half of that was never true, most tanks counter Bastion pretty well. And now everyone is out-performing him in barrier busting because Bastion was never picked, and they wanted a new one to replace him instead of fixing his problems.
The only use Bastion had seen in stage 4 of the overwatch league (I think, I haven’t watched ALL of the matches…) is Kings Row attack first point only, and they’ll almost always swap off the first time they don’t win the fight. They use him to break the Orisa shield up top. And even this usage is only because they don’t have storm arrows (Or new Symm) yet. If they had those, that would be a much better way to break the barrier, and Bastion would probably never be picked apart from playing around in spawn.
If Bastion could see a similar level of play to Junkrat, that would be absolutely amazing. Junk isn’t a must pick, you don’t see him in every game, but he’s a very valid pick. He’s good against Birgitte comps, which is where Bastion should shine the most. Not that I’m wanting to steal that away from Junk, but that’s literally what the devs wanted Bastion to prevent, death ball barrier war comps…
That’s making the assumption that he’s balanced now though. It doesn’t matter how long he can survive (not long by the way, 20% Ironclad doesn’t do much of anything if more than one person is shooting at you, and if that’s the case, swapping to Recon to try and run away is just going to get you killed even more) if he can’t do any damage when he’s in Sentry mode.
His spread is almost the highest in the game, only beaten by Tracer by 0.6°, and Tracer has an effective range of like 10 meters before falloff occurs. Yet Bastion is supposed to be a mid-range character. Even Soldier’s maximum spread if he just holds down LMB is only 2.4°, 0.6° smaller than Bastion’s. I’m fine with it always being at maximum spread, that part makes logical and balance sense, but having such a massive spread doesn’t. His spread rewards bad aim, and does nothing for good aim, which should never be the case with any hero.
I don’t want to seem like a jerk for plugging this all the time, but here’s a thread containing several Bastion rework ideas, most of them setting his spread to a constant 1.5° (The same as his Recon gun’s max spread, and 11% more than Orisa’s spread) and adding 1.5x multiplier headshots. I feel like that’s a nice balance of both.
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/overwatch/t/some-bastion-rework-ideas/128305
What was the angle before? I feel like 0.75* would be perfect