Bastion is awful

He’s certainly not bad on it. Like a lot of things in this game, positioning is key. With Bastion especially, you have to be smart about how you deploy him.

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Dude we are Bastion Mains… I think we know it better. We know that positioning is key but he is garbage and that for 20 months. Look at the statistics. He is trash and we try to give him a good place again… wait… he was never good… oh… so we try to make him playable again. We should have been the counter to armor, 3xtank and now stun meta. He is not because he is trash.

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The only way to negate his spread would be to set up right in front of the enemies, which is a guaranteed suicide every time.

What statistics?

Yeah like I said, positioning takes a bit more thought than other heroes. You’re probably not used to it.

Yes? That’s sort of the point. He is easily the highest damage output in the game. He requires team work, in a team work game.

Don’t get me wrong, he is bad, but is core premise isn’t fundamentally flawed just because “I can’t 1v1 in this team game”.

That’s like saying soccer goalies are “under powered because they cannot score goals from that far away”. Different role, different team dynamic. A soccer team wouldn’t work with 11 goalies and no forwards. They work together.

I wouldn’t think that would still be difficult to understand…

Probably this one

I have like 80-100 or so hours of “used to it”… and are actually you saying that you’re supposed to walk up to enemies, then go into Sentry to shoot them?

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Even if you assume that he’s hitting 100% of his bullets (which never happens), Reaper and Hanzo still have a higher potential DPS than Bastion.

The difference between goalie and a sentry Bastion is that a goalie can move. And a goalie can do his job defending the goal. And here is Bastion, staying over here and being an easy target.

Oh yeah, I remember that thread. That was the one where you were petitioning to give him headshots, right? I think I said at the time the numbers weren’t a problem because they don’t negatively impact his playstyle in any way.

No dear, that was your idea. That’s why I said you need to be better at positioning because you’re obviously struggling with him.

  • Hanzo: 0.8 shots per second, 125 damage per shot, 100 sustainable dps

  • Reaper: 2 shots per second, 140 damage per shot, 280 sustainable dps

  • Bastion: 30 shots but second, 15 damage per shot, 450 sustainable dps.

Go on?

I didn’t suggest giving him headshots in that thread, that was too point out his awful forced accuracy.

Could you please explain how Bastion is supposed to be played then? Also, thank you for being so condescending, it really makes you look like you know what you’re talking about, and really strengthens your argument.

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Reaper can get headshots, which puts him at 560.

Hanzo has Storm Arrows, which is 70 damage × 4 arrows per second × 2 for headshots.

If you’re going to assume that Bastion is getting 100% accuracy, then you have to consider a completely optional situation for the rest of them too

I’m pretty sure some among the Dev team regret Bastion ever being a thing. He is such a glass canon it’s not even funny. Anything other than a major rework will either not do much or break him to a level never before seen on any other hero.

The re- work may actually fundamentally change him such that those who really like him won’t ever be able to recognize him.

TLDR. Bastion in his current state will never be viable alone or not be broken. No matter how much we may all want it to happen. My advice if you really love Bastion as he is, get used to playing him like that, he may get a buff or 2 but nothing will ever bring him onto the level of S76 for example while remaining the way he is now. Just my thoughts.

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Bastion 1.0 was fine other than Recon mode, which was a bit too inaccurate. He was an actual glass cannon back then, whereas now he’s slightly more durable, but he’s lost a LOT of his damage potential… if they had only reworked Recon and Self-Repair, he would be fine. Still probably F-tier, but fine.

I’m not being condscending, you’re being paranoid. To play him well you should use your brain and predict enemy movements. Position yourself where you know enemies will not expect you and where it will be too late by the time they see you. An element of surprise is Bastion’s greatest strength and you have to utilise it at all times.

Sounds pretty condescending to me…

Okay, now what happens when I need to sit in a position that’s further away? His spread will prevent you from doing reasonable damage.

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I don’t like to imagine 1.0 was fine. People are now more experienced at dealing with him and let’s not even talk about all the powercreep. If he stayed like that I like to believe he would be in the same if not worse state.

I really have no suggestions to make him ok all I know is that it ain’t easy.

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Oh, you don’t know how math works, lol I get it.

Storm Arrows is burst damage, not sustainable. You’re completely ignoring the cool down. You’re also doing the same thing with Reaper, in addition to pretending you can head shot with every pellet (which is actually impossible due to spread unless you are literally on top of your target… and even then impossible with smaller models). Bastion can land his optimal damage from an actually viable real world scenario (being a short distance away from a target.

Look at it this way, since you seem to have a hard time not ignoring clip size:

Bastion: 15 damage per shot, 300 shots per clip, 4500 total damage

Reaper: 8 shots per clip, 140 damage per shot, 1120 total damage

Hanzo: even pretending that storm arrow is a viable comparison 6 arrows, 70 damage per arrow, 420 total damage.

Hopefully you can see the binary difference between, say, breaking a Rein shield before a reload vs not breaking one.

Fact of the matter is, no other hero can apply the consistent pressure with raw damage output that Bastion can. He’s an anchor pick (the team works around him) because he emphasizes a particular strategy. Having a bastion and NOT picking a shield tank is like… it’s like having a deathball comp (say, Rein, Zarya, Brig, Moira, Reaper… and then going Tracer. The rest of that group is going to stick in a tight ball, and the Tracer is going to flank off on her own and get wrecked because there is no dive to follow her).

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Go ahead and check the math, it’s right…

It doesn’t matter what “type” of damage it is (math doesn’t care about that by the way), I said that they have a higher potential DPS than Bastion, and then showed that they do.

Okay, so we’re still assuming a perfect scenario, got it.

Again, headshots. Reaper does get bonus damage for critical hits, and since we’re taking into account a perfect scenario, you must also consider a perfect scenario for Reaper.

He shoots at 4 arrows per second, and can headshot. Again with the perfect scenario thing.

I don’t care who can break a Rein shield without reloading, I care about who can deal the most damage inside of 1 second without using an ultimate. If you want to argue that Hanzo shouldn’t count, that’s fine, but Reaper has a higher DPS no matter what.

If you don’t want to consider that everyone can headshot, then you can say that Bastion deals the highest DPS with everone else having a handicap, but as for “Bastion does not have the highest DPS in the game”, that’s true.

No dear, I manage reasonable damage from a variety of ranges. Just the other day I was on the rialto map and I perched in the corner window, parallel to the arch before the bridge. My team was pushing the payload and I cleared Orisa and 2 others on the other side of the bridge, and forced junkrat and pharah away from the window diagonally opposite, allowing my team to push over the bridge. If his spread was reduced, I would have killed the junkrat and pharah and that’s just not fair. Players like me shouldn’t have supreme command over the battlefield with a hero just because other people fail to utilise them correctly.