This will literally break this game! A tank bastion can rocket jump so he can be almost anywhere. Old turret was dumb and could do long range which is something bastion shouldn’t do. Bastion is already the best shield destroyer in the game why would you double that? How is it fair to destroy a orisa barrier in 1 second and a rein shield in 2 seconds? No! This will make bastion a 100 percent pick rate. Bastion is a situational hero not a must pick hero. There is a reason that the ironclad was nerfed
Ok i kinda laughed a bit not gonna lie, but how will he be able to do double the damage after the changes?
Best shield destroyer…that is not a role…hanzo and junk destroy shields as well, even symmetra can do that…heck even sombras emp is good vs shields.
There is a “deals 2x damage to barriers” in there for some reason… not entirely sure why… not really needed at all.
Bastion is stationary when in Sentry mode, meaning he can’t close the distance between himself and his enemies like every other hero with high spread can.
That’s uh… that’s the point… Give him more mobility. So many people complain that mobility is his major weakness, and that’s why he’s the worst hero in the game (spoiler, it’s not), this fixes that.
The shield breaking part would definitely make him extremely overkill, I agree on that part, but Tank on E wouldn’t make him a must pick…
Yes, but right now that “situation” is “Only on Junkertown, but not if the enemy team gets you off the objective once”. That’s not situational, that’s unusable… If he was actually a good anti-tank pick that could deal with squishies moderately well, then he’d be a good pick.
Because there was no damage resistance stack limit at the time, meaning he could get 85% damage resistance with a nano boost… Also, 35% passive damage resistance was too high to begin with. He should have gotten 20% to begin with, and then only lost headshots if they wanted to nerf his damage. Or not have Ironclad at all, and not touch Sentry mode other than the transform time changs. OR, if they wanted to make him less effective against squishies, but remain a good anti-tank hero, then reduce his damage to 12, leave his headshots, give him a 25% bonus to barriers, keep 20% Ironclad, and don’t mess with his spread…
yes bastion can’t close the distance unlike every other high spread hero but also remember that hit damage is so much better then all the other high spread heroes at a distance to. His draw back damage just got buffed so its even better at range. The 100 percent pick rate part is that BASTION SHOULD NOT HAVE MOBILITY he is a high DPS low mobility hero that is how he should be and stay as. As for the “situational” hero thing that’s because nobody is taking the time to learn the hero. Imma use kolorblind as an example, she is playing at the highest rank possible and plays bastion every game unless she is needed to swap. This show that bastion can be played at any game if skilled enough. Though junkertown is a great map for bastion it’s not the only map bastion is good on. For example Hanamura if you cap 1st point then you claim the high ground have u teeam got to point and do suppressive fire on top. You can rocket jump to the other high ground which is even better on defense but waste an ult. If tank was to be come an “E” ability then he will be moving around everywhere like a tracer. Imagine it tracer had a bastion turret as gun would you wanna nerf that? As for Ironclad yes 20 % should have been the original instead of 35%. This ENTIRE REWORK IS NOT A REWORK AT ALL IT IS A COMEPLETE BUFF HARDLY ANYTHING WAS NERFED!!!
its amazing that people actually think this is a good idea, but i just have to ask… what exactly would his weakness be if this went live??
this would make bastion the most powerful hero in the entire game; best range, best damage, best survivability, and right up there with phara and junk in terms of mobility… like what on earth lmao
2x damage to shields?? whyyyyy hes already the best shield breaker in the game and that would just be stupid, it would take 2 seconds for bastion to go into turret, break a full HP orisa barrier and then kill the orisa in about 2.5 seconds
letting him rocket jump whenever he wants LOL, this would be so stupid for everyone besides the bastion, he wouldnt have to think about where he sets up anymore just “oh i might die here better just rocket jump away lmao”
why make his recon gun just a worse falloff soldier gun? its already unique and powerful, leave it as is
having his armor constantly shift around while going from recon to turret would be so confusing for the enemy, theres a reason ironclad was added in the first place to keep his hp the same while still making him more tanky
the new ult just sounds so hilariously broken, bastion would be legit unstoppable for 8 seconds… did anyone stop and think to themselves “ok so how exactly would you counter this new bastion?”
bastions weakness is his immobility and range, thats why you play around that with smart positioning and good game sense, this would be so hilariously broken i dont understand how people can actually think adding all of this would be good for the game
its cool if you guys hate me thats fine, but ignoring my opinion just because you’re upset that i called out this awful design is pretty unfair and you have to know that i understand this hero very well and play him consistently at a high rank
3 Likes
He’s still left with one of the worst DPS in the game, even with his higher damage per bullet. At the very start of his damage falloff, he’s already missing 70% of his shots on a training bot. And those are much larger than almost all heroes in the game minus tanks. The damage falloff buff was almost useless for him because of his horrible accuracy. Here’s a thread going into more detail about his damage at various ranges. These numbers can be taken as a best case scenario against most heroes because they were tested on a large stationary target, and enemies will be smaller and moving. Against tank heroes, this can be taken as about an average, he’ll do more to Winston and Hammond because they’re so big, but he’ll do roughly these numbers to pretty much everyone else…
I’m fine with that. If that’s true though, then make it true. Revert his spread, revert his headshots. Right now, he does trash damage…
One example of a high tier player using a hero does not mean said hero is good. If that were true, then Sombra should be A-tier, because fitzy and many others play her at a high level.
Tank does not have the same mobility potential as Tracer. He can’t use Sentry mode while remaining mobile so even so, it wouldn’t be a “Tracer with a minigun”…
I do agree with this part somewhat, this specific rework is a bit too generous. However, nothing needs to get nerfed in a rework, a rework can be all buffs…
This specific version of a Tank on E rework is lacking in weaknesses a bit, if Bastion were to get his Sentry damage back, he would probably need to lose Ironclad entirely. That part is fair. The first bit comes off a bit mean, but whatever…
I’m questioning that part too… While he is the fastest shield breaker in the game, that doesn’t mean he’s the best… Roadhog can break shields while staying much safer than Bastion by corner peeking, which is a huge plus.
If you’re thinking you might die somewhere, you’re probably too late to rocket jump away. Even so though, pretty much everyone else in the game has a form of escape (Soldier can run, Reaper can wraith, Roadhog becomes basically immortal while healing, etc), this would be Bastion’s…
This part is also fair, I like Recon the way it is, I see no reason to change it.
I think it would be less confusing than having an invisible damage resistance only when in Sentry or Tank mode… That’s not to say I like this version of Ironclad though, I’ve already stated that it would probably need to be removed completely if Sentry were to be good again.
Bastion was one of the least picked heroes in the game before his rework, and back then, his weakness was immobility. Why would they add a second weakness to an already struggling hero? Range shouldn’t be a weakness on a stationary hero, that doesn’t make any sense. Or if they do want range to be his weakness, don’t have his falloff model be 35-55 meters.
Tank on E isn’t inherently an awful design, Bastion is probably the one hero where putting his ultimate on E actually makes sense (as opposed to Mercy). This implementation may not be the best, my implementation may not be the best, but the idea itself isn’t an awful one. And since there are no modding tools available, there’s no way to test these sorts of changes to see if it would indeed make him a must pick in every game ever.
I should probably throw in that I’m more in favor of either a simple Sentry buff (even just his spread would probably be fine), or a Sentry revert (remove Ironclad, remove the extra ammo, revert all of his other Sentry stuff) over Tank on E, but I don’t think Tank on E is an awful idea for a full rework.
2 Likes
if you’re going to revert his turret you have to lower his transform speed again, being able to set up and have the highest dps in the game + the best range in 1 second would be unfair and give the enemy no time to react, it would be more unfun than playing against a hanzo
and if tank mode is on E, able to be used whenever he wants, you’d have to remove tank jumping. allowing bastion to position himself in cheeky silly spots every single team fight would also be very, VERY unfun for the enemy team
invisibile damage resistance isint really the way to put it, everyone just knows that he takes less damage in these modes, give him a visual or something if you gotta but roadhog is the same way and you dont see people asking him to get 500 armor instead of 50% resistance
pickrate doesnt mean everything at all, bastion is and should always be a low picked hero that comes out in rare times, if bastion was picked every single game or really even just 40% of games i can promise you overwatch would become very ,VERY slow and unfun, its the same reason nobody plays Heavy in 6s tf2
EDIT: ill clarify that my problem with this rework is adding all this at once, the turret change is broken AF and the other stuff isint needed imo but putting tank on e alone might be ok, but it would lower the skill required to play bastion because positioning wouldnt be as important and it would be frustrating for the enemy team to have to hunt the bastion every push
2 Likes
I personally think the 1 second transform speed would be fine, but I’m fine with reverting that too if it is too powerful. My only concern is heroes such as Doomfist and Brigitte who could lock a Bastion out of transforming with stuns…
I mean, Symmetra can do the same thing… So can Mei, and she’s actually pretty good now with her falloff buff… This just allows him to do it on his own.
If you don’t know that Bastion has Ironclad (you’d be surprised), then you would be very confused when you did less damage to him sometimes and not others. I’m not saying an invisible damage resist is necessarily a bad thing, just that it’s a strange concept.
Pickrate shouldn’t be used to balance heroes, correct. They can however be used to determine if a hero should be looked into. Bastion had such a low pickrate because he was relatively weak due to his Recon being somewhat weak and Self-Repair being very clunky to use in combat. Of course, Bastion will always have a relatively low pickrate because not many people enjoy his playstyle, and that’s why pickrate shouldn’t be the only metric in balance.
That’s somewhat more or less where I stand on this particular rework concept. I see no reason to give Sentry double damage against barriers. If they did do Tank on E, just a simple spread reduction/revert would probably be plenty for Sentry. Heck, put it at a constant 1.8-2°. Worse than before, but better than now. My personal favorite would be copying Hammond’s spread (and nerfing it a touch) for Bastion, as his spread pattern would probably be pretty good on a stationary hero.
1 Like
the thing about sym and mei though is their damage is nothing compared to bastion, they’re like utility heroes while bastion is raw damage, you can get a very mobile bastion by running him with a sym but you’re sacrificing a second DPS for the utility of a TP, and i feel like thats how it should be imo
the way ironclad was handeled was odd for sure but i think it works out fine, i cant speak for lower ranked or new players and i think some kind of clank animation or sound when he takes damage would be kinda cool
i still think that the main reason bastions pickrate is so low rn is because of hanzo being too damn powerful, honestly every hero in the game is getting destroyed by him, i think its good to wait until they finally figure out what they want to do with hanzo and give the wrecking ball meta some time to sit, i dont know about others but ive found bastion to be more powerful this season than ever before
im not totally against a bastion buff but it’d have to be very small and very carefully done, something that would only impact skilled bastion lpayers without really effecting people who just pick him for pirate ship you know? making pirate ship stronger would not go well with the community and i can see why
im not totally against buffing turret, the stuff suggested here is WAAAAY too strong but maybe a slight spread buff (and i mean VERY SLIGHT) would be enough, but its hard to buff him without breaking him
2 Likes
While I do really love rocket jumping, and I wish I could do it more, that’s a fair point of view…
The rest I pretty much agree with as well, Bastion is slightly better (though I haven’t really played all that much recently, and I don’t really play comp at all) because of Hammond mostly… And yeah, buffing pirate ship would definitely not go over well… I don’t think there’s much you can really do to Bastion to prevent it though, I think that should be left to other heroes. For example, giving Symm piercing secondaries again… That was a pretty good counter to it, and now it’s just gone…
Also, while I have you, did they actually fix the colorblind thing? I can’t really tell a difference, but I never really use it anyway… I know they said something about it, but I don’t know if they actually did anything…
1 Like
yeah taking away syms pierce shots and making it so orisa halt doesnt pull turret anymore REALLY hurt, that stuff needs to be fixed
im glad we got some middle ground though for sure, i feel like if these changes were suggested as individual changes rather than a full rework it would have been much easier to digest
also no sadly no update to colorblind mode, i feel like its gonna come next patch though fingers crossed
1 Like
Oh right, I keep forgetting about Orisa… They haven’t even addressed that either…
But yeah, taking it slower would probably be good (Or you know, adjusting him on the PTR instead of releasing an unkillable Bastion). Obviously if you’re going to do a rework, a fair chunk of it would need to go in at once, but the entire thread wouldn’t need to… But I mean it’s not like Astro can really make 30 different threads for different parts of it, that would just get spammy and unreadable…
Hmm… I am hoping they’ll do something about that, it’s not really fair to people like yourself… I’m hoping they’ll do something along the lines of allowing the player to adjust each color similar to how OWL does it, like with shields and outlines and such (maybe not quite as many options, not sure how abusable that would get)… Obviously with quick options too for people who don’t want to spend forever setting that up…
1 Like
I dunno about Bastion, but I am interested about what you can say about Astrobiology. Does it include study of advanced mutated life forms such as super intelligent hamsters?
Honestly, I’m just happy you gave an argument
[quote=“GrantMan-11889, post:164, topic:175424”]
If that were true, then Sombra should be A-tier, because fitzy and many others play her at a high level.
[/quote]ya sombra is not a A-tier hero but fitzy is gm because he is amazing with her know who to hack and know the limits of sombra.This is the same with Spirit the reaper player and Kolorblind.
Ya that’s fair enough I guess I was wrong about that but even so bastion can go to places even tracer cant without help. Like the top building on the left side tracer cant go ther without tp I believe.
What rework has been an all buffs in this game? symmetra nerfed her primary fire and a bit of the secondary fire. Mercy lost her 5 rez ult which made her more fun because who likes killing 5 then having them all rezed back. the bastion rework got a turret nerf. These were the major reworks pls include any others if there are any.how would anyone counter this without doing a 3v1?thry doing a custom game with this “rework” ya you cant do it perfectly but you can see the idea a bit. for tank just max the ult generation on combat and passive to kinda represent a cooldown the increase the damage by like 70 percent to represent old turret and add 75% the the overall heath to represent the turret but it will be in all modes but you’ll be in turret most of the time so ya.
And i missed it all…
First things first, respect for coming in and giving your opinion on the topic.
If we only got the spread reduction, would a small transformation time be too much?
At least for going out of sentry.
nothing needs to be changed for bastion as of now he is perfectly fine. But hypothetically the spread reduction will make bastion’s range increase majorly which should be one of bastion’s weakness same with mobility which is why a tank mode as an “E” ability should never happen. The smaller transformation time will increase Bastion’s already insane mobility since people could shoot for a bit longer which could be life or death because of his insane damage.
They should completely ignore this because it’s broken.
Ok edglelord
What?
If this bastion is perfectly fine…then too bad you never played before rework.