Baptiste is Great- Can We Change Mercy Now?

You’re missing the point.

people hated instant rez.

Her heal being higher or lower is irrelevant. People do not like instant rez, period. She could have zero healing, getting all her value from and being “balanced” around instant hard to stop rezs. People would loathe it.

Resurrection as it is, is very powerful. People don’t want it to be more powerful.

I never said you said she wasn’t.

I said in order to keep her balanced after lowering her healing, would require changes most sane players would not like.

Ohhh the devs said this.

Don’t assume I can trouble you to cite where they said this?

Those small changes had a purpose.

Those values altered specific damage break points for the heroes. For each of these heroes those damage values were intended to alter the amount of bullets to kill a 200 hp target by 1. Ana needing 3 shots to kill a 200 ho target versus 4 is a big change.

You literally said you don’t think “much would change” by reducing her healing.

Then there is literally no point in doing it. You literally don’t have a solid reason for lowering it beyond “meh I want to”. You have not thought about any specific break points. You’re pulling numbers out of a hat going “it won’t do much anyways”

I’m going to iterate to you again

Compensating mercy for lowered healing- would result in a hero players don’t like to deal with, due to the buffs needed to the rest of her kit to compensate her for lowered healing.

Your idea of a “mostly healing off healer”, is straight up bad and poorly thought out- and basically no one agrees with you.

This thread has a couple hundred posts of people going “NO”, and you have a single like on your post.

There is a reason

People don’t agree with you.


This opened my eyes more!! I feel like the reason why they’ve made changes and a full-on rework to her was because she was becoming outdated/over powered compared to the other characters and their kits. I read an old Mercy thread from a few months back and they really opened my eyes to how Mercy was before the time I played her, and how she was broken for such a long time. I also know PS4 Mercy mains that actually play a good role in the t500 chart last season.



Again, NO.

Because the game NEEDS heroes like her to be an entry for new players, especally those new to the FPS genre. A “primary” healer that doesn’t have to aim is needed, if you don’t like that well tough. Go play COD or something if you want to strip away yet another no aim hero. It’s suggestions like this that are killing overwatch.

So you’re saying that you are right and you are the only right ones and the other is wrong?

Your example is wrong, this whole situation is more like “Hey, let’s touch this blue fire! It’s blue, so it should be cold!”

That is how you being viewed right now. But you won’t care anyway since you think you are right.

Okay, I’m going to state how flawed your argument is (Highly doubt you will listen but I will do it anyway).

You said to reduce her healing to 40-45 hps in exchange for faster CD GA and instant rez. First, why would you suggest for Mercy’s healing to be nerfed when she is undertuned. Not just Mercy, every healer right now is undertuned except Ana (one can also view it as Ana is overtuned).

She doesn’t even need those nerfs to buff her. The only unnecessary buff is faster CD on GA since she already has a very short CD in it (unless you are VERY bad at managing GA, and that’s saying something).

Instant rez can actually be added now since resetting or stacking rez during Valk is no longer exist. And it doesn’t need any compensating nerf to it, if you want rez to be instant so badly.

Buffing her healing to 60 hps will not make her oppressive. Seriously, it is her only source of healing, buffing it back won’t steal every other healers position. Not to mention it is a single target healing and limited by 15 meters range. And if you says that single target 60 hps Mercy will overpowered aoe 80 hps Moira, then I don’t know what to say.

She doesn’t need her healing to be nerfed for more utility or survivability (why would you even buff GA CD anyway if you are a “Mercy main”). If there’s any nerf for all of that is Mercy’s beam now needs to directly look at allies or it will break within 1.4 seconds if Mercy didn’t look at her ally directly or within her los.

Tbh, it doesn’t even need any nerfs. Just buff every other healer and they all can stand in the same position as Ana is right now anyway. And if you say that Ana deserve to be better than other healers just because she has to aim then I’m done talking to you.

Seriously they don’t care about our opinion on how much we against it. They said that they did this for the betterment of the community when the community itself is highly against it and then they said that the community can go jump off a bridge and these changes needs to be applied for game design matter and not caring our opinion at all.

Everything this world needs to be done is for the community. If all of us disagree then how do you can see this idea will bring any kind of fruition when in the end everything is for the community?

And then they says that we all a short-minded group that can see for the betterment of the community. How can it be better if no one, I repeat, no one agrees with you.

Sorry for the delay. Life.

per what I said regarding them releasing valk as it was, and the other things like:

So this is where you can see how the changes in the game have been shifting fairly explicitly. The idea is that we aren’t so confined to “niche” anymore and this stemmed from one tricks. if you look at how valk works vs rez, it’s a large reason why mercy is inherently more viable. She is more flexible. Valkyrie is intended to allow mercy to be used even when teammates/comps/situations used to make her incredibly difficult to do so (hide and rez-developer update 5:20). Rez wasn’t the part they kept. it was flight, because flight is what is less niche, and gives mercy more agency for herself.
This was the first of such major changes. We later see it with symm

here the purpose would be to make her an off-healer.

in how to play her. not what people see for her value or where that value is.

I am not. I have many issues with 50 hps mercy. including how i think it is a middling position, and how I feel that valk bloats her heal numbers significantly.

detail how

now many people have actually interacted with this thread. but 2 have agreed with me. But a large numbers of others seem to agree with my observations, just not my conclusions.

And then dont explain why.

Basically how I feel. If you look at how the devs looked at rez, they didn’t think it would be an issue, because they didn’t think it was the part of the kit people liked, likely because it was the part that was so restricting. The entire bias of valk wasnt to her healing, it was to rez. And rez, is just antiquated as an ability.

she would still be here.

detail how. how do you translate the abilities of mercy not needing aim at all to ana or moira or baptiste who have to aim, but can heal many targets at once?

I didn’t say i want to strip her down. I think mercy is a valuable asset to overwatch for including a variety of players. I think her kit is just better suited to off healer. And i don’t think that is bad at all because I dont view off healers as less than primary

… what???

That implies that every single thing cold is also okay to touch.
And it doesnt give your response to such retorts.
“it’s blue so it must be cold!”
“no, because blue means sky and you;ll teleport”
i think your example just places your side into an even deeper hole

do you own a mirror?

if you think she is undertuned, thats an entirely different matter. Personally, I too feel she is undertuned, and would advise that such be accounted for in her shift to a secondary healer. Moreover, if I nerf healing, and gave her compensation… that’s not a nerf. that’s a shift. Not the same

that sounds like a matter for another thread

I dont disagree.

i do not. I think rez needs to be removed from mercy’s kit.
this was merely an example.

when I consider the optimal output for ana, moira or baptiste, I disagree. A jumping genji for ana, or even moira is very difficult. This is why her healing was considered just too much. Mercy was doing the job of three other main healers, with the same output, strong consistent utility, when they needed near perfect accuracy for the same results.
She isnt oppressive to enemies, she’s oppressive to her own team.

I disagree with this. Again,
consider how an ana works to heal one solo target with aiming, versus mercy. And then mercy received valk. Mercy’s healing, is the go-to for strong consistent healing . Not just consistent. That’s why it was nerfed. She could be ana and moira without the resource or range cap of moira, nor the mobility cap of either, nor the utility cap of ana, nor the heal cap because she could keep up her whole team fairly solidly on her own.

I dont consider myself a “main”
I play a lot of mercy. If valk dies, that would likely change.
I think GA is her best source of independence outside of pistol. This should be accentuated.

… that’s pushing her more into aiming… and takes away a large asset of having a mercy… why would you want this?

honestly, im over talking to you. you keep projecting things onto me I NEVER even said in the history of these forums.

60 hps was totally fine with me, not that long ago. And someone talked, discussed, and argued with me, and now I think otherwise. because I can actually… idk… listen, learn, and grow in how I think and see the game.

i said opinion needed context. thus my example:

seat belts
and since you brought it up: dismantling slavery

I have.

Many times.

The buffs you’d have to give to the rest of mercy’s kit, to compensate for her reduced healing, would largely result in a frustrating hero to play against- because of how strong those abilities would have to be to compensate.

Why is healing so core to a large amount of compensation?
Did I say give her 2 charges of rez?
Did I say let her be invulnerable?
Did I say give her a 10 sec rez?

You aren’t detailing how certain buffs have inherently a change in her power all over a nerf to healing.
Or how healing is so powerful is warranted utility buffs to such an extreme.
Or why healing is so weak at another level, that it inherently warrants buffs to an extreme.

None of this is detailed in any of your retorts.

Because it’s make those aspects of her kit quite dominating in comparison.

Not to my knowledge.

Still nope as far as I know.

I’m going to assume no? Is it no?

Again- I have.

One of your suggestions was instant rez and / or no slow down.

Players hated when she could do this.

Yes yes kiddo I know- she hasn’t had that WITH reduced healing.

It doesn’t matter. Her healing could’ve been 20 healing per second. That’s irrelevant. Players hated it how it felt when rez was so reliable- period. Her healing wasn’t a factor. Just her being able to rez a target so readily was a detested aspect.

Seriously my friend- what’s your primary language? I frequently struggle to understand what you’re trying to say.

You don’t need extreme buffs to the other parts of her kit, to make them feel dominating.

Your example of a 1 second GA for instance. That’s not necessarily an “extreme” buff.

But it would make mercy absolutely a nightmare to play against. A hero who can blitz around at up to, what is it again? 20 meters per second?

And for her to do that every second?

That sounds terrible to play against.

So we have a hero who can barely heal, is difficult to kill, and is getting powerful redirections off left and right?

Boy oh boy that sounds FUN.


This will never happen. And I’m thankful it won’t. This would be a nightmare on so many levels for a lot of players.

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i dont consider speed boost or zen disc orb dominating. they are equally important. the value comes in the use

that sounds like an issue with rez flat then. not timing. if you dont like rez, nothing amends this.
if you additionally, yes, the nature of how things are rezzed matters. Its not just that she rezzes slowly that made players less hateful to it, nor the number. they didn’t flat nerf it, we saw mutlitple iterations of rez before where it stands, numbers, speed, and momentum have all changed.
Healing would definitely impact it’s perception of power


so, tracer…

i think barely is unfair. I find zen, lucio and brig strong healers.
Why is it unfun?
A moderate healer with high mobility and strong limited utility.
Seems great

im bookmarking this.
Like, with all the changes in the game, this is the premise… its not going to happen so its a bad idea? like. youre right. it might now. tomorrow they could say “lol no more overwatch. 3 years was enough” and my idea would never happen.
and you’d be right.
idk if that’s really how you wanna put this

I don’t either :slight_smile:

But we’re not talking about those.

We’re talking about what you’d have to do to the other abilities in mercy’s kit, to compensate for a reduction in healing.

Making mercy vulnerable during rez amended the issues pretty well.

Yaaaa… no. They pretty much did.

When her rework came out it was instant with no cast time.

Then they added a cast time, and a slow down- but kept it instant in ult.

But that was too much too, so they hammered it there as well

Those changes were nothing but flat nerfs.

In mercy’s totally power- yes.

In their perception of rez?

Absolutely not.

If mercy HAD to have a better rez because of inferior healing, a lot of players would hate it- no matter how balanced as a whole she was.

Rez has always been a hot topic in all of its forms.

Isnt dashing 20 meters per second every second, has 150 HP, and has a VERY different context to her role. Her kit requires her to get within spitting distance of her enemies by choice.

Mercy isn’t going to be zipping into the enemies ranks and harassing them.

And, players pretty much hate tracer too. It’s only because of that context and the addition of heroes like Briggs and McCree’s buffs that we don’t see as much about tracer

I don’t.

He isn’t. His primary healing is quite weak.

What saves zen is his ability to augment damage on a focus target in combination with his own considerable damage- and his ability to use trans when he really needs to keep people alive.

Is healing everyone in range while doing other things.

Is healing everyone in range while doing other things, and has a big largely non preventable burst heal.

Because mercy can’t do multiple things at once. She already spends most of her available time healing. With even lower healing she’d have to spend more time healing

To you.

Not many others. Most in here seem to dislike the idea. A lot. Tough cookie to accept I know. Not all of our ideas are gems however- as much as we want them to be.

Please do :slight_smile:

No Chief. It’s not a bad idea because it’s not going to happen.

It’s not going to happen because it’s a bad idea.

The order here is important.

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I’m kinda over stating the basics of how to have a discussion. Your opinion has been noted.

Tootles o7

its my thread. i will remain. i just said your opinion has been noted. feel free to try again regarding a different perspective with a basic aspect of respect.

Firstly Mercy requires far more aim than moira, as does soldier and sombra. Secondly zen is an off healer and you are saying he doesn’t require aim?

Also mercy is an high mobility character like tracer, only where tracer is short burst on one axis, mercy moves quickly all the time both verticaly and horirontaly. It’s hard enough to master tracer but now you expect her to aim like ana whilst moving at breakneck speed and still be an efficient healer?

I’d be glad to rejoin the conversation should you do the same. You can argue it’s our job to convince you why your idea isn’t good.

But it’s just as much yours to convince us why it is.

Maybe for her pistol? But I believe the context of the conversations previously were largely focusing on their healing. But without a more direct quote for what you’re replying to it’s a bit hard to gauge.

well tbh, I think it’s already come across to the other twp people who did seem to get it. you didnt even bother looking at them. all this discussion and we got no where for every single person who apparently disagrees. cant reply if i dont know where to start.
like, you can’t even gauge my sentence structure. idk what foundation i have to even bother trying.

I was reffering to her pistol, but:

  • If you have to aim better with the pistol anyway why does her whole kit have torequire better aim.

  • moira hardly requires much aim for healing anyway

  • The primary function of a healer is to heal AND STAY ALIVE, I frankly don’t seewhy aim should be the main determining attribute for a good healer anyway. That’s what the dps role is their for and this whole aim thing is breeding a lot of the toxicity we face today.

-mercy is high mobility whilst moira isn’t, yo get reliable healing she has to be more forgiving in aim, also I recon he would have more bug like doomfist if her beams required aiming while moving. Unlike moira her defence is her movement so to have to ai while evadind is a bit much.

not in healings

not… to heal

… no
i don’t think that at all.