using those stats, Doom is better than Echo because he has a higher winrate and pickrate… see how dumb that sounds?
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I agree with this, nerfing Bap would require them to nerf Ana but saying sleep is more problematic than a defensive ultimate on cd is extreme hot take.
op is right, platchat don’t argue pls, your baps are healbots down there.
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lol some dude thinks sleep is more problematic than IF.
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… This has already happened. When he healed for 50 a shot he was terrible and was not played. Why don’t you people remember things like this?
The mobility itself isn’t bad, but the charge time and the speed of the climb (and linger) make him an easy target.
It’s better than what it was, but unless you have a very coordinated team, there’s almost no point to it.
It’s not really hard for Supports to gain value.
Fire one healing shot, you just got value. A lot harder for a Damage-role hero to get this.
Outside of Immortality Field, there’s nothing Baptiste isn’t doing that other Supports are doing. Most of them have more useful ultimates across all ranks of play.
You need a little more pro-activity with Immortality Field - it’s not that reactive - but there are some problem elements with Immortality Field, sure.
There are plenty of ways of dealing with ultimates and coordination and counter play are required. Immortality Field in this case is a bit redundant here, but the problem with Immortality Field is that no one dies while under it and no matter how much effort or power you put into those shots. Destroying the device isn’t so much an issue, but it can be easy to hide.
Offensively, sure. Probably overkill on the healing front when looked at in hindsight. These days he feels more appropriate.
A lot players aren’t factoring possible miss rates to include in those healing numbers. So those numbers are frequently misleading.
I’m not seeing these numbers. Moira is consistently outpacing Baptiste (and pretty much everyone else), still. This is not unusual for Moira as she is intended to be a high-potency healer.
Again, players aren’t factoring miss rates.
If Baptiste is healing 50 healing per shot (which is current) with an accuracy of 69% Then the healing per second is 34.5. This isn’t bad healing for multiple targets, but it isn’t good healing for a single target.
Likewise, looking at 70 healing on a single shot impact at 69% is 48 healing per second single target. This is pretty terrible and when you start factoring things in like Reloads (or the fact that per reload, Baptiste only has 500 to 700 healing) it gets even lower. This isn’t to say that Baptiste’s healing is bad; it’s still very competitive with the rest of the Supports and their healing, but unless the team plays well to Baptiste’s strengths (staying clustered up), that healing isn’t that useful.
Another way to think of it is looking at Lucio and trying to manage healing a frequently spread out team and thinking 16 to 32 per second is good when you’re only hitting one to two targets.
Regen Burst and Immortality Field are supposed to make up for these shortcomings; but Immortality Field is probably a little too strong, here.
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And have you played against a good a-d-a-d strafing bap? Omg it’s a nightmare! His hitbox gets wonky real quick.
If you look at top 500 numbers Baptiste player s hit around 10k-13k per 10min averages while also hitting 8k-10k total damage dealt 10min avg. I think the top bap player has hit like 10k dmg and 15k healing 10min avgs, but is a little bit of an outlier.
Ana/Mercy heal for around 8k-10k per10min avg while doing significantly less damage period, but make up for it in other effects. Its hard to show the value of a sleep dart or bionade. Though it makes sense they might do less total healing and damage.
Moira can get to around 13k healing/10min, but does significantly less damage total and with almost no utility. Baptiste does damage, healing, and buffs a team with ifield and matrix.
I’m not surprised Baptiste outdoes Moira. Brig, Zen, and Lucio are niche or situational picks. Brig is anti-dive. Zen is burst meta stuff. Lucio supports rein/zarya groups for rushing things down.
The thing that is telling to me is that almost regardless of season of late Bap is still a top pick and like top 3 sort of support in top 500 for most played. Throughout different meta’s he has found a place to stay relevant.
Mhmm low bronze here, I Slept a blading Genji last week in role cue. That bastard was on me for the rest of the game. Ironically our bap kept casting IF on himself. We lost. I don’t play bap because most of his kit is situational he really isn’t an easy hero to play, especially if your team isn’t grouping up.
You’re not really getting full value out of his AoE very frequently and when you are it’s a risky proposition. Clustering up makes you incredibly vulnerable in this game. People place a lot of emphasis on inmo field cuz they get real sad with it prevents a death. When it’s on cooldown or the target dies directly afterward they don’t notice it. The situation is set up to enforce confirmation bias, just like rez. Without strong heals to back up the ability it’s rather weak.
Hes a bit overtuned, I think your over-selling it a bit.
him and Moira are the only real balance problems in the support cast rn.
How dare you say I’m showing a ridiculous lack of understanding, then unironically say “the fact that Baptiste can use HIS OWN ULT and get value is what makes it so strong”. Its his ult, I’d imagine him to be able to use HIS OWN ULT and get value out of HIS OWN ULT. What am I not understanding?
My issue with the design was that it was designed as a team ult, but no one really wants to use it as a team ult, so bap uses it himself. Of course I’d expect HIM to be able to use his ult, but what’s the point for everyone else?
So his ultimate makes him better? The nerve!
Again, you misunderstand. Window isn’t poor because HE can use it. Window is poor because it was designed as a team ult, but its a crappy team ult. It would be like Transcendence, but everyone runs out of the circle because there’s no reason to be in the circle.
You demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of my point, and then said “what crack am I smoking”? Lmao.
I just can’t believe Baptiste gets to use his ultimate and then do a ton of damage. This is clearly an oversight. His Ultimate should make him perform WORSE right?!
Bap just needs his immortality to do exactly what the April fools patch did.
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Baptise also replaced Moira, Why I am so against them adding new heroes to the game if they can’t think of anything creative other than to replace already existing characters and making them even better.
The only reason Bap doesn’t get looked at for balance is because Ana is also somehow still even more overpowered than he is. The two of them are ridiculous. It is starting to become a situation that, at least in higher SR, there is almost no reason not to pick both of them. The ‘off healers’ provide some sort of ‘utility’, but Bap and Ana provide an outrageous amount of healing -in a game where power slide is really starting to avalanche in damage-, and they’re hard to kill, self sufficient, and have good, fast charging ults.
Mercy is in a pocket dimension because so many people OTP her, but at least her viability really depends more on your DPS picks (if you’re picking your hero for that reason, as opposed to who you ‘main’ or ‘otp’). But she’s got value because she’s hard to kill in a weird flanker meta, and does not need much skill to preform on and survive as, compared to say Zen or Lucio. Or you can just take Brig to shut them down with the same effectiveness. Or, if you have good mechanics, just take Ana/Bap, because they’re both flat out better.
Zen is useful because Ball and Hog are having a moment…but he’s also so vulnerable and reliant on your teamwork and comms that unless you’re nutty at Zen, you might as well take Ana or Bap. His rewards simply don’t justify the risks most of the time unless, again, you’re an outrageous Zen. Why play your brain out on Zen when you can just take Brig and get more value, easier and safer.
Brig is probably too overkitted also, but her primary function is in shutting down flankers -Ball- and protecting the Ana…which she does super well. But if you’re even remotely decent you can just play Bap with your Ana instead be more helpful to your team overall. But she’s more overall useful than Lucio, so she has that going for her.
Lucio is good with…Rein? That’s really his only reason to exist anymore tbh. He used to be good with flankers and against them, but now Brig does both of those jobs. So Lucio is just a hero you might pick if your team picks Rein…But even then, Rein is viable without a Lucio…Lucio without a Rein is sort of pointless. His identity is like, gone haha.
Moira, lol.
I’m saying this as a GM support player. The support lineup is starting to feel busted. The ‘main healer’ roles starting to overtake the point of playing any ‘off healer’…and even if you do take one, it’s just because you either need more stun (Brig), which feels like absolute trash to add more stuns into the game, or because your team is just looking for a braindead Mercy pocketbot (because Mercy needs more of an identity than just mind-numbing RMB botting, even in GM). The other supports are really getting lost in the shuffle.
I just hope what makes bap fun doesn’t get gutted like Sigma did because people kept complaining.
Let me fix for you: Ana is still ludicrously overpowered
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No.
Twenty characters.
you’re not understanding the point of window itself… the point of window is to be a supporting ult. as in, give it so your dps can use it. instead of giving it to a legitimate dps like Cree/Soldier/whatever, Baptiste, a support can get just as much if not more value from it. the idea is to place it in front of your team, but you don’t even need to do that. Baptiste can use it himself. this is a serious lack of critical thinking being used here
no it’s not, lol. window-firestrike utilizes your team and is an incredibly strong combo. or window visor. window highnoon, or literally window any projectile/bullet in the game
window is very strong as a team ult because it either forces zoning or the enemy frontline literally falls over. but yes, hurling an unstoppable 200 damage projectile into the backlines that can pass through enemies isn’t very strong, i understand, i know
You’re trolling. I can’t believe that was all it took to get under your fragile ego and skin. literally embarrassing
Baptiste, a support character, has unrivaled DPS having a window in front of him. you’re okay with a support character that has the highest dps output and highest healing output being able to kill tanks in literally under 2 seconds? no wonder they don’t look at forums for balance, you guys have brainworms
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I think Bap dmg need to be nerfed a little .