Balancing using data

That’s just not true after what they did to Mercy :skull:

edit: if anything, they forced pocketing metas even further which is what people were complaining about to begin with (damage boost)

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Well, here is the deal. Sojourn doesn’t do that well for most of the playerbase.
They have said so many times, and have given stats showing it.

She is however a problem in the very high ranks, but that is now the place which Blizzard will just accept things break down in.

It is perfect? no. But no balancing system is.

I think people have this weird idea that they can make a balancing system which works perfectly for all ranks, and it just isn’t going to be like that - so they are in tradeoff territory.

Personally, I think they should treat her like Tracer, balance her for high ranked play, and just accept she won’t be all that good below that.

There are basic rules which I follow.

  1. It is ok for a hero to be bad in some ranks - people will complain, but it is better than breaking the game.
  2. It is not ok for a hero to be brokenly good in SOME ranks - aka, don’t break the game even if it is only for a subset of your players.
  3. It is not ok for a hero to be bad in all ranks - aka, all heroes should have a place where they are good, or you should buff them until they are.

Given those restrictions, you want to spread a heroes “heroes they are viable” to as many ranks as you can.

As it happens I think she is falling out of meta now, so they may have fixed her high ranked play issues.

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Literally Genji didn’t need nerfs bc hes a high skill ceiling hero and was fine even in the lower ranks bc it was easy to pick off a genji that didn’t know what he was doing. I started as gold 3 in season 1 when he got nerfed and ended that season in masters so I saw how he performed in all of those ranks and he was not a highly picked dps player bc of his skill ceiling so really, he’s also one of the most popular heroes in the game. So honestly, it just doesn’t make sense with these balance changes.

Not to mention these “nerfs” that theyve given to sojourn were more buffs to her. Even the mercy healing buff is a buff to sojourn in itself. Them claiming these last patch change she’s gotten as “nerfs” when they actually turned out to be more buffs than anything else proves to me they just dont understand this game or the hero designs and how they actually work?

I don’t like what happened to Genji, but I think Blizzard is painted into a corner here.

They can’t break low ranked play.

They don’t want to change Genji to not be a noob stomper, because the changes (likely a double jump nerf) would make him feel bad to play for a lot of players.

And the Genji players are feeling understandably upset that he isn’t as viable in high ranked play.

Totally, Genji get REAL hard to play in higher ranks, and the skill the Genji mains bring there is amazing to behold.

Yeah, they were trying to make her stronger in low ranked play, and weaker in high ranked play. I understand why they have done the changes they did, but it’s been a dogs breakfast getting to this stage, that is for sure.

Blizzard is painted into a corner here though, and I think it is worth understanding that.

Putting a one second cooldown on DB, and giving back their damage, and making blade good outside of nano would be the technically right thing to do, but look at the Mercy changes, technically right changes can be hated if they make the hero “feel worse” to play.

So what can they do?

ok but who were these changes aimed towards??? No one had issues with her mobility people around all ranks didn’t like her damage boost and specifically her rez which went untouched? People didn’t like the pocketing playstyle across all ranks, and instead, they just further pushed that with her new kit? Let’s not forget her pistol buffs???

edit: I will say no one had as much issue with her mobility AS MUCH as they had an issue with her rez and damage boost, and even lower ranked mercy players mobility wasn’t that big of an issue that people were complaining about.

I just really don’t find the logic or INTENTION behind changes like that to Mercy let alone to Genji. They feel thoughtless.

High ranked players were REAL upset at her new mobility. Lower ranks where not so good at turning it living though attacks which should have killed you, But for sure the high ranked players were.

If you were keeping an eye on the twitter / streams, etc… there was a lot of complaining about it.

As for Blizzard not wanting to change DB, it is mostly because they don’t want the heroes to all becomes slight variants of each other.

Every time you see Blizzard changing things which are “not the problem” - it is because the problem is what makes the hero more unique.

Then doesn’t that just go against the logic of

u kno i will just keep my conclusion that blizzard really doesn’t care or listen to their playerbase and just balances for funsies.

Not really, they are trying to nerf her high end play, and make her better in low / mid where she struggles more.

But honestly DB changes would have done the same thing shrug

It sure feels that way, but that is mostly because their ability to communicate isn’t very good.

I mean, “Blizzard isn’t good at comms” isn’t news for anyone right?

Asking for them to be better at it, is like asking Bethesda to write bug free code. I mean, we all know it isn’t going to happen.

Go look at the T500 leaderboards. T500 is where she is supposed to be the strongest, yet she’s not really used that much by the best. Instead there is a ton of Tracer, Cassidy, and Widow.

Same with Kiriko actually, she’s not used nearly as much anymore at the highest level where she is the strongest, yet people act like she hasn’t gotten like 4 nerfs in a row.

But I know many people will need to wait for their favorite streamer to give them their next opinion, so maybe it’ll just take some time.

I can guarantee this is the case bc of the map pool, and also why I don’t wanna play comp this season :melting_face:

I realize this. Doomfist arguably a worse rework. My point is they should rarely, if ever, change movement and kit flow. +/- the dmg, range, spread → should be all they touch this late into the hero roster (it’s been out for years in some form or another).

We shouldn’t see big changes based on spoofed or irrelevant data or echo chambers from influencers and the 1%. There should be a convergence, but there never is. They constantly hard buff or hard nerf to shake up the meta for the luls and the feels and the freshness.

Balance with this team is a mood not a science.

They should balance by making counter heroes … but we can’t have that any more.

Define data?
Data of player usage.
Data of efficient player usage.
Data of one or the other on controller and PC.

Besides, if they actually balanced around “data”, I can name a few characters who they should definitely look at.

But but but silver players can’t hit their shots, so clearly she isn’t broken.

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ok

easily 2nd or 3rd best CD in the game along with bionade and kiri suzu but go off

this is why i said good bap players, not someone like yourself they will know how to get value out of it

ok then but why does that matter if it was nerfed then if it was only used for repositioning

true

“underpowered” ok bap is easily average or higher just heavily overshadowed by ana/kiriko

i mean characters like Echo are good but rarely seen on the battlefield

dont you worry, they’ll give her compensation buffs instead by “accident” :slight_smile:

For 90% of the playerbase (basically Diamond and below), Sojourn is actually underperforming, according to Blizzard.

This is false and has no basis in fact.

This data has no bearing on your conclusion, and in fact, is nothing more than hyperbole.

It’s not.

It’s range is limited, it is connected to a stationary device with a limited health pool, and it doesn’t prevent death, just prevents health from falling from a critical point. It is also limited by cooldown. It basically has the hallmarks of a powerful ability, with the appropriate weaknesses and counterplay options available.

This is incorrect. 75 damage is not 2 less than 81 damage, but 6 points less.

If you want an accurate comparison to Genji, that would be Lucio, not Baptiste.

They don’t do this.

It really doesn’t matter that much whether shuriken damage is 27 or 29 or even 28. It is still hitting that breakpoint for a Swiftstrike finish.

No, it’s not.

He’s viable, but there are heroes that are easier to play as him and get similar or better returns. Reaper, is a great example.


Still a lot of hyperbole here, not a whole lot of fact or feedback, and downright misinterpreting statements by Blizzard that borders of malicious.

If by balancing by statistics was all they did, you would not have changes to Soldier’s gunplay this recent patch did to improve Soldier.

do you not know that immort is fragile? and melts instantly usually? even sym’s teleporter takes far more damage than fragile immort.

i guess that’s why i’m not good, but exceptional.
screenshot any bap with 4 elims per life. 4 respawns per 10 mins. 2 min on fire per 10 mins. all with a 70 win rate or higher, over the course of 1000’s of matches or even 100’s.

because dummy, bap has zero mobility due to devs impulsive artificial impairment of exo jump. you don’t play bap so you can’t relate. which is why you even typed such a question.

humble acknowledgment

than who? ana? kikiro? both ana and kiriko are easier to heal with than bap. plus neither were nerfed into oblivion like bap. so remark is immediately invalid.

only due to invalid nerfs ignoramus. remark invalid.

fiction. echo became *** when it got nefed into oblivion also. the primary thing echo has going for it, is a slim hitbox and erratic flight. combine those 2 factors = hard target

fiction declined. when characters are nerfed, character usage skyrockets, correct? didn’t think so. excessive ignoramus. nerfing and neglecting has repercussions: imgur.com/a/Mv9i9Tu

Summary on Mercy’s Changes after Feb 7 - General Discussion - Overwatch Forums (blizzard.com)

I tried to go over all the problems with the character in that post