Tempo rezzing.
You could use rez to bring back 1-3 people to keep up the momentum of the fight. This was called tempo rezzing, and using it properly was where the real skill was in mastering Mercy.
Calling Mercy’s old ult “mass rez” is actually a misnomer, because it implies that its purpose was to bring lots of players back every time it was used.
It was an AoE rez, and most of the time you only had the opportunity to rez 3 or less people during a fight.
Current rez is better in tempo rezzing because once she revived rein he will survive until teammate genji comeback from spawn, mass rez used to counter ult because if 2-4 teammate die at once then most likely they died to enemy ult
a lot of mercy posters here seem to have this “potg ptsd” you think exists
they keep using their lack of potg spotlight as a justification for reverting instead of arguing in a way that makes sense
Current rez is tempo rezzing.
It’s a tempo rez on a thirty second cooldown, that the player does not have to earn and cannot be hindered from obtaining.
Old rez demanded that you had to be really good at Mercy to get rez often enough to use for tempo rezzing. If you weren’t good enough at triage, beam juggling, or kept getting killed, you couldn’t tempo rez at all.
This is not true. Ultimates are fun when they’re designed well. When Soldier pops Tactical Visor, you know what you need to do – take cover, break LOS, get behind him, focus him down, have your tanks up front. When you know Rein has Earthshatter, you know to keep your shields up, don’t line up, play around corners, save your safety ults. There’s interaction and fun to be had when ultimates get used, even on the receiving end, at least when ultimates are good.
But Mercy’s ultimate was poorly designed. It felt unfun because it was a total reverse of progress, done so by a character that only had to press Q regardless of whatever the situation was. The “counterplay” consisted of killing Mercy first, and nothing else, unless you really want to consider “completely outplaying your opponents so well that even when they get a second chance, you still manage to beat them despite a resource disadvantage” to be counterplay.
Could not happen. Limitations would only inhibit Mercy’s “intended” uses of Mass Resurrect by making the ultimate harder to use. Thus, Mercy would be even more encouraged to make the most of her ultimate by hiding and waiting for specific circumstances, if not getting her team to arrange that specific circumstance.
Even if this did get Mercy to stop hiding and ressing, you end up with an ultimate that is so limited that it can’t be used conventionally either. Limitations like requiring LOS or a stricter range just make a weird ultimate weirder to use, and you don’t want that in general, much less when it’s an ultimate that effects your teammates and their position on the map. And on top of that, you’re nerfing a hero that was already underperforming, just to justify her ability to completely undo a team fight.
Weird how this never happened.
What did happen was that Mercy would charge her ultimate and force the enemy team to have to kill her first. This slows down the game tremendously, as the enemy team simply can’t commit their biggest resources to a fight unless they know for sure Mercy will be killed in the fight or before it – and if they kill Mercy before the fight, they have to win the rest of the fight 100% before Mercy respawns and flies back to do exactly what they were trying to prevent.
And as this is happening, both teams are charging their ultimates, even though they won’t commit to them. After all, Mercy’s team has no reason to use ults, or can at least afford to use them sparingly, because they’ll have a better advantage using those ultimates after they’re ressed and they drained the enemy resources. And for that reason, Mercy’s enemy team can’t use ultimates, because they’ll need all of them to win not one, but two fights consecutively. Which also means that they can’t use their ultimates to stabilize, allowing Mercy’s team to win fights with just a couple pick-offs each time because those lives are going to be important to having during the second battle.
If res was healthy for the game, we’d have seen healthier games. Instead what we got were players reaping mad gains by pressing Q when a huge indicator on their screen told them to, we had players willingly disengaging from the game and hiding around corners doing nothing, we had other players berating their Mercy for not hiding and ressing or chastising her if she gets found and caught, we had players frothing at the mouth yelling “kill the Mercy! kill the Mercy!” during big fights, we had awesome skill-based plays completely negated because they weren’t skilled enough apparently to include Mercy who wasn’t even near the fight.
That was not healthy.
Tempo Rez worked when the enemy never focused you ever. Once you got in higher ranks of play, getting a Tempo Rez off on more than a target was difficult, flankers focused you down a lot, and people were making sure to kill Mercys with their ults. Hide and Rez was a necessity for Mercy players at high ranks to stay at their rank ; even though that tactic could be used across all ranks.
The sheer concept of “let’s die on point for Mercy to rez us” is all sorts of wrong to me. Again, I want to support my entire team when they live, not when they die. It’s only a personal feeling, of course. But I think that the furthest away from AoE Rez this game stays, the better.
I rez 3 of my teammate when I wasn’t good at mercy does that make me better than mercy mains? if your tanks died then you will have no one to protect you during rez which you will die after unlike the current rez which your teammate is present to protect you, It STILL doesn’t change the fact that mass rez will be still used MOST of the time to counter ult not tempo rezzing
People need to stop acting like the rework was done just because it was “unfun” to play against or “BUT MUH POTG” and subjective noise like that. Time to move on, look to the future, develop the discussion beyond what it was a year ago.
While acting like the rework was just done because of “funzness” or whatever makes for an easy argument, it’s not accurate.
Please stop spreading misinformation. It doesn’t contribute to the conversation, it simply erodes it.
You shouldn’t get to enforce higher level play without practicing higher level play. Mass rez required less skill to use than any other ult and was more difficult to counter than any other ult. That’s completely unfair, and that’s why it’s gone.
You forgot one:
When you know that Mercy has rez, you can try to force out a tempo rez by killing her main tank or co-healer early on in the fight. You can also hold onto an ult and get ready to drop it on a rezzed team to immediately re-kill them: for example, high noon locks onto enemies even when they’re invulnerable. Activate it post rez to get killshots lined up by the time the invulnerability wears off.
There is no one single “intended” use of mass rez. That’s why Mercy players liked it so much, it was always fun to figure out how or if it should be used. It’s optimal use changed depending on the combat conditions.
A simple cast time/LoS check would not hinder the tempo rez playstyle, but it would make “hide n rez” a suicide run.
Are you deliberately ignoring what I say? Because it sure feels like it.
I say that a cast time/LoS check would have eliminated "hide n rez."
You respond by telling me about how horrible “hide n rez” was, along with a sprinkle of complaining that you couldn’t afford to ignore the healer and that ult spamming wasn’t viable while Mercy had mass rez.
Have you noticed how ult spamming has become more common, now that there isn’t any counters to it? Are you going to tell me that it’s healthy for the game?
You spend so much time complaining about the old AoE, instacast go-through walls rez, that I can’t get a word in edgewise that maybe I share some of your complaints.
And it could of made Mercy as a whole utterly useless above Plat. You realize that, right?
Your bias is quite severe. I’d suggest toning it down, but you are free to do what you want by all means, ofc.
How? If Mercy uses rez for tempo rezzing, and gets a new E to help out in the midfight, how would she be useless?
“hide n rez” wasn’t a strat used by Mercy players who played to win. It was a strat used to pad stats for inflated SR gains. If you abandon your team as a main healer, you’re dooming them to die. The enemy team won’t need ults to kill them, because they don’t have a main healer supporting them. Hide n rez only fed the enemy a ton of ult charge, and set your team up for a re-wipe.
Because at the top tiers, even with unlimited LOS and invuln on cast, Mass Rez was still just used to bring up Pharah basically.
With that in mind, it kind of makes sense to be a 1 button press per 1 person rezzed sort of mechanic, right? The 1-5 is… Unnecessary. It’s value isn’t so much defined by the Mercy but the enemy’s ineptitude.
Making her ult a worthless Mass Rez would require a pretty massive E in compensation, and imho isn’t even worth exploring.
Valk should be reworked, her HPS may need adjustment, E Rez could use adjustment or be replaced with Rez being tied to her ult in a 1:1 fashion.
That’s my opinion. Working with what we have. Not trying to introduce wild new abilities.
Wild new abilites?
Wild new abilities???
(collapses onto a Victorian fainting couch)
How could you call AoE rez a wild new ability, when it was in the game for over two years? My jaw hits the floor at your audacity, good sir!
Oh? So you’re saying bring back Mass Rez with LOS restriction, no invuln, remove rez on E… and change nothing else? If that’s the case then just hard no.
I had assumed you’d be adding some compensation via an E ability. And while Mass Rez was in the game, the game has changed significantly since then. There’s no way to really know how it’d interact with the current game.
This seems like common sense to me. Is there any part of the above that you disagree with?
Nah, we’re on the same page. I’d bring back mass rez, but I’d rework it pretty heavily. No invulnerability, a cast time (probably around the same length as Rein’s ult), and a LoS check.
I’d make the E ability something that relies heavily on gamesense and teamplay for maximum impact, so it’s pretty strong in the high elos (where rez is weaker), but much less effective in the low elos (where rez is stronger). I’d actually be cool with it being some kind of aimed projectile, so that new players are eased into to FPS nature of overwatch and have more transferable skills when they branch out.
I’d keep the bunnyhop and superjump, and have Mercy rely on mastery of them to survive post-rez.
It wouldn’t be enough.
Mass rez is a really big deal (impact is similar to killing 3-4 people) and most common forms of counterplay don’t work. Specifically, barriers don’t do anything, and movement abilities don’t do anything. At a minimum, it would need a long casting time, like Deadeye. And yeah, Mercy’s going to be whiffing it a lot. Like other heroes who have incredibly vulnerable ults, Mercy players wouldn’t get to time it when they want it for ult management, etc., but rather just use it when they have a chance to do it and not die, same as McCree or Pharah.
I don’t think they’d like it.
Any ultimate set-up can be countered by getting kills before they can use it, except Mercy had the adaptability to use it whenever she wanted so long as she didn’t die. This is not a good argument, and you don’t force out tempo resses if Mercy is already committed to wanting to res the whole team. What would happen in these situations is that Mercy and her team would regroup, assuming this was an early loss of two lives, and then push again to use res when the odds are more in their favor.
And if Mercy still used tempo res, wow, she’s still getting power out of her ultimate, even when “countered.” All she had to do was press Q, regardless of what it took to kill those two people, regardless if those two targets were able to kill an enemy before they went down.
So again, we have situations where Mercy’s enemy stockpiles ultimates, ultimates that can still be conventionally countered and negated, it’s not like pressing Q with any of these ultimates just gets instant value. And when one team is stocking up on ults, so is the other, and you end up in the exact situation I described; both teams have a flurry of ults that they all cast at once, because they need their ults to reap value and they need to have all of them to win not one, but two fights.
So not only is Mass Res good at undoing ultimates, but it’s also good at baiting them out. Wonderful design.
Just like with any of these “prevent res” ultimates, you run into two problems. One, Mercy can just choose to not res, and save it for the next fight, meaning any of these prevention ultimates that were used would just go to waste, reaping literally nothing and giving you one less ultimate to work with. Two, tied to this, it doesn’t feel fun to use an ultimate just to hold off the enemy from using one, not in this situation where your team already won the fight and now you’re pushing in extra resources just to say “no no we DEFINITELY won this fight.” McCrees would just love to pop High Noon and do nothing with it, I mean they love that about it right now, right?
Hence why I put “intended” in quotation marks. I’m at odds with what Mercy players want Mass Res to be, honestly, because for example… You say you want tempo ressing to be the thing, that’s what a lot of Mercy players say, “tempo ressing was better and more fun, so let’s change Mass Res to encourage that.” But then these same players will fight tooth and nail for the mass power of Mass Res, they go out of their way to make sure she can STILL get five resses, “b-b-but there’s a cast time! A-A-And LOS restrictions!”
At the end of the day, it breaks the flow of the game to have multiple people resurrected at once, especially when that ability is tied to one hero. The entire game becomes about her when she’s on the field because her life is significantly more important than anyone else’s. This makes Mercy the prime target at all times, which Mercy doesn’t like because she’s being hounded on constantly, and Mercy’s enemy doesn’t like it because they want to make progress off of any kills they get, not just the Mercy ones.
Nope, would have made hiding more prevalent. The cast time means Mercy will be vulnerable, so she can’t afford to use it in the middle of battles when the enemy will read the play and kill/stun her first. Adding LOS restrictions means Mercy’s team will be incentive to group up and die together all at once, since otherwise they’ll miss out on the res and the ultimate loses effectiveness.
If you like tempo ressing, get a load of this: that’s exactly what Resurrect does currently. Someone dies, you bring them back up to stabilize. There’s even a stricter range and cast time, just like you want! Strange how Mercy players don’t like it still when they keep asking for it! Almost makes you thinking emoji that what they liked about Mass Resurrect was how it empowered them by pressing Q, and how it made them the star of the show because their life was inherently more valuable and more dramatic than any other player, all while she had low skill requirements across the board. Almost!
No, my response was this:
So I guess I have to ask you,
Really weird because uhh I never said this! I reread my post, I didn’t complain about my experiences whatsoever, nor did I even mention ult spamming outside the context that ult spamming is what happens when Mercy forces both teams to stockpile their ultimates and allow them to shoot them off generously.
I literally have not noticed this, I’ve noticed the exact opposite. People are way more tactical and careful about ultimates, people more regularly arrange to use ultimates at specific times. I play in high Plat and Diamond, so maybe if you’re in a different rank the experiences will be different, but since Mass Res has been removed I’ve only noticed less ult spam, directly due to the fact that teams aren’t being forced to stock up on them to win two consecutive fights.
Edit: lord, and no offense but aren’t you the user who made a topic about “wooing” a Mercy main? I know this is off-topic but I saw you on a Twitter screencap. Legendary.
Edit Edit: I went through your topics to check but what I found instead was that within just the past 30 days you’ve made at least sixteen topics about Mercy. Maybe it’s time to talk about something else, or collect all your thoughts into one solid topic and make that one work. Making these Mercy threads constantly when everyone else is already doing it is just giving the Mercy community an even worse look.
I’m on a twitter screencap? Link plz!