An idea to prevent "dps Moira"

So hold down left click on nothing until resource meter is empty, then just keep occasionally doing it, and I’ll do solid dps.

Got it.

Idea for a new hero, Very strong gun, but instead of ammo it overheats. You have to hold a button to cool down, and if you get too hot you start taking damage or get a debuff.

hmm.

Yeah, that would be an issue. I would suggest limiting the healing activity by making sure that (A) she has a target in range, and (B) she must hit the target to make the effective heal and thus gain the bonus. Optionally, (C ) the target’s health must be at critically low levels.

Here’s an idea, get rid of the meter for healing, instead make it the biotic orb meter. Orb would be tied to this meter instead of being cooldown based. Healing would charge the damage orb and dpsing would charge the healing orb. Once one side of the meter is full you can fire the respective orb, if both sides are full you can choose which orb just like it is now. After firing an orb both meters deplete.

Probably be a pain to implement though so the current version is fine.

Yep, only the person playing Moira can see that self healing number. If you minus that number from the total healing. That is the real number you healed your team by.

If DPS Moira is such a rampant problem as so many of you make out, (although I can’t remember the last time I saw one), then why don’t YOU pick Moira first and heal to your hearts content.

You don’t have to worry about a DPS Moira if you are playing her

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i was thinking more like when a genji is diving. I usually kill him or get him pretty low before he backs off. but I do see your point

yeah I would just make it like 1/3 and less healing juice would be 75% and more than 1/3 is 50, but make it so she actually has to heal for it to count.
maybe scratching the connection to how much healing resource is left would be best, and instead make it so like doing 200 (or whatever amount thats just an example number) in a short amount of time grants 10 sec of an additional 25 damage or something like that

I mean, Moira is pretty useless when it comes to attacking tanks, especially considering that D.Va can eat her orbs. Her damage is laughable against armor. Running and healing is her only option there.

However, Moira’s damage needs to be enough to dissuade careless dives by Genji/Tracer/other squishy heroes who are trying to pull off a sick flank. She absolutely can kill them if they overcommit.

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Biotic Grasp(Damage) - Hitbox reduced by 50% to bring it in line with the hitbox of Zarya’s beam. Range decreased from 20 meters to 15 meters. Damage increased by 50% from 50 damage per second to 75 damage per second. Self heal on Biotic Grasp(Damage) increased from 30 per second to 35 per second.

This makes Biotic Grasp(Damage) harder to aim and puts it 5 meters shorter than the falloff range of the shortest mid range characters in the game. The 75 damage per second and increased self heal, however, rewards Moiras with good aim and the ability to stay alive given that she has to put herself at more risk to use it with the range reduction.

Biotic Orb(Damage) - Hitbox reduced by 50%. Duration reduced by 50% from 10 seconds to 5 seconds. Total damage of the orb increased by 50% from 200 damage to 300 damage. Damage per second increased by 50% from 50 to 75 damage per second. Untethered travel speed increased by 50% from 20 meters per second to 30 meters per second. Biotic Orb(Damage) now replenishes biotic energy(healing resource).

Again, the hitbox reduction makes it require significantly better aim and prediction to land the damage orb. The duration reduction and increased velocity serve to make the damage orb feel less “random.” The damage increase will reward skillful Moira players who use the orb correctly with these changes, and the orb gaining the ability to replenish healing resource aids Moira’s healing and gives her a much needed option for replenishing her healing resource from afar, taking into consideration the range nerf I’ve proposed for Biotic Grasp(Damage).

Animation changes - The animation for Biotic Grasp(Damage) would be changed from a tendril that appears to “lock on” to whatever target the beam is affecting to three or four tendrils that arc out from Moira’s palm and then converge together at the point of impact.

The returning biotic energy from her damage orb would be animated as biotic energy trails that home in on Moira, sort of like the transfusion trails from transfusion grenades in Borderlands games.

What is encouraging to play this style than? Seeing your team get wiped because you are too busy trying to kill in their backline does not help anyone but the enemy team.

But wouldn’t this directly encourage Moiras to play like DPS? If their beam does more damage, and requires them to chase their targets more, and heals them for more, then it pays off more to forget about healing for the sake of fragging.

But the increased velocity means that people have much less opportunity to get out of the way, and they will die faster to it, which again, directly incentivizes throwing damage orbs instead of healing ones.

Interesting idea, but what’s to stop a “DPS moira” from just spamming out all the lemonade at once regardless of her team’s health, and then right clicking the enemy team to death since it does more than her current right click?

No. First and foremost, the range reduction means that Moira has to put herself at more risk to deal that damage, as her beam would be out ranged by every mid range hero. You’re also not looking at the whole picture. With my proposed change, she has a new way to restore her healing resource without having to go out and chase for damage with her beam to restore it all the time.

The increase in velocity is to compensate for the hitbox reduction and shorter duration. Yes, it would have more velocity, but at the cost of having to aim it better and whatnot. And yes, it incentivizes her to use her damage orb, but again, you aren’t looking at the whole picture that I’ve laid out.

Currently, there is little to no reason for a good Moira to use her damage orb. Moira and her team will almost always get more value out of her using the healing orb. The changes I’ve proposed give her a long range option for restoring her healing resource on a skillshot which is on a cooldown, allowing her to better play around her team using her healing spray more.

Overall, the changes I’ve proposed give Moira more options and increase her utility as a healer, which is something that she is currently lacking.

Which is already something BattleMoiras do—chasing kills into disadvantageous circumstances hasn’t stopped them yet.

Doesn’t matter if she’s tucked behind a barrier. I don’t think most Moiras are chasing kills only at the very fringes of her range.

DPS Moiras aren’t chasing damage for their resources, though—DPS Moiras are out there to kill, without really concerning themselves with healing their team.

It’s not especially hard to lob a damage orb into a cluster of enemies; I don’t think Moiras will have an appreciably harder time hitting people, but the enemies will have a vastly more difficult time escaping.

But DPS Moiras do it anyway, which is kinda the point of the thread?

Yes, and my proposed changes do not help them to do this in any way. They get hindered by a shorter range and smaller hitbox, meaning they are less consistently able to get the damage. The increase from 50 damage per second to 75 damage per second is not going to make a dps Moira any more effective, especially with the range and hitbox reductions. For reference, Mercy’s pistol does 100 damage per second with body shots.

It absolutely does matter. Because going from 20 meter range to 15 meters means that every mid range hero can stay outside of that range without any damage falloff. The shortest damage falloff range for mid range heroes in this game is 20 meters, which also happens to be the range for Moira’s beam right now. Reducing that range by even 5 meters is a huge boon to mid range dps heroes fighting against her.

Yes. And they’re playing her ineffectively. The only places where DPS Moira works are low ranks and quick play, and a lot of it has to do with aim. The changes I’ve proposed will overall make those low level Moira players even less effective. Range reduction and heavier aim requirement means that she is at more risk and her damage will be far less consistent at low ranks where players don’t have great aim and tracking.

Meanwhile, it would be an overall buff for pretty much everyone who plays her correctly.

It’s one of the easiest abilities in the game to avoid, and even in situations where it may be hard to avoid, the damage can be mitigated to a tickle by simply grouping up together. Again, in my proposed changes, there were also a hitbox reduction and the duration was reduced.

Yes. They don’t care that they’re being ineffective and a burden on their team. And I will reiterate that overall, my proposed changes make DPS Moira less effective in the ranks where DPS Moira is a thing. This means that there would be less incentive to try to DPS as Moira in ranks where it’s a problem.

You’re never going to completely eliminate DPS Moira from the game unless you completely remove her ability to do damage, which would be a huge mistake. Healers should be able to defend themselves and not just be a free kill. There are people who still play Mercy as a DPS and only use her pistol and damage boost. Is it right? No. They’re going to do it anyway.

The only thing that can be done is to reduce the effectiveness of that playstyle in the places in the game that it is a problem. However, when dealing with a hero like Moira, who is balanced and possibly even a bit underpowered currently, you cannot just nerf something without providing adequate buffs as compensation.

Pick Rein before they get the chance. It’s the only way.

She literally can’t

So use healing resource as reload, got it. You can’t make bad players play well.

it would technically never happen : if damage regens heal ressource, and vice versa. Plus if both resources recharges over time like current heal resource. It would just limit one or the other ability for a short amount of time (or never, depending on player skill)

As a Moira who loves their healing orbs, this idea makes me think that DPS Moiras will simply use all their healing resource on nothing just to get the DPS boost. Not the good players, but those are the people you’re aiming to change it seems.

I don’t hate the idea, but I doubt it would actually solve the problem, and would simply ‘tell’ people how to play her…which I’m not fond of.

I’d be glad to see more resource regen the lower my resource is, but that’s a different topic.