I for one, would like you to get the devs to disprove or prove this theory. They have not, and thus far will not, disclose their data and number crunching publicly (This is their right to do so). Thus it is also clear that we are able to make theories.
“They can’t/won’t say anything therefore it proves me right.”
Winning what? What damages are we talking?
Hey Cuthbert is there a way I can contact you off of these forums? There’s something I’d like to discuss with you in private if you wouldn’t mind
Gambling is also a form of entertainment, but an inherently problematic one that is subject to regulation. For good reason.
His entire schtick is that you have your SR, and there is a hidden MMR that differentiates between “good” and “bad” players at the same SR and that is used to “balance” teams for a 50/50 win chance. And his sole piece of evidence is a willful and grave mis-interpretation of a Scott Mercer quote explaining that they try to put you into 50/50 matches. And he also ignores the statement by Jeff Kaplan that SR and MMR are functionally the same thing except one allows for inactivity decay and the other does not.
better odds would be available if the gaming commissioners were not involved
They state that the match maker makes matches based on MMR and the match maker tries to make as close to 50% win chance as possible. They also state that this is done to make the games “better”. Just like SR moving is done to make it “feel better.”
How is this misleading?
Yes. But where you get this to mean that they intentionally handicap “good” players by putting “bad” players on their team?
Source?
Random people describe alien abductions. And the Mandela effect. And gangstalking. Doesn’t make any of it even semi-reasonable
I think you are overestimating the power of mmr. As far as we can tell it basically makes you lose less sr or gain more sr based on your preformance so that you can’t be punished as much for a bad team if you do good, and indivisual skill is more rewarded. You can’t get mad at being in a balanced game because you want a shinier rank. Remember, sr is a skill rating, a balancing factor, IF you are too good for your rank, you carry games and make them unfair, so you gain sr and move to where better players are. If you aren’t carrying games, you don’t deserve any higher and you can’t blame blizzard or anyone else. I’ve been playing for long and I’ve done worse as a new player than u have as an experienced player. About a week ago 8 was 2100 and rn ı am 3100, and it’s not the first time I’ve made a climb like that. Focus in what contributions you need to make to get better. Just today I had a game at 3100 that I lost, 2 round on eichenwald 3-2 20k Lucio heals and 30 sound barriers, with a triple boop potg which got us 2nd point in OT. Even people on my team arguing with eachother said that I was the only one who wasnt trash. Did I get mad at mmr for a bad team? No, I reviewed my own vod of the game with replay system, and am now reaching out to higher ranked players to know what more I could have done (they vod review me).
Mmr and sr is always changing, teammates always change, but you are the only constant in your games, so fix that constant. Blaming teammates not only takes you out of a self improvement mindset (the mindset you need to play with if you want to climb) but it tilts you which makes you play worse, and it tilts your teammates.
You know, 3 days from now I litterally went on a 17 lose streak starting from 2.9k with 2 games which did not have admitted throwers or leavers. Was I tilted? Yes, and I took so many lengthy breaks for my sanity Inbetween those games and still came back to losses. But I held my head. I believe that if I deserve a higher rank I will get it, and a 17 game setback is nothing for someone who deserves a higher rank. Yesterday and today I got it back pretty well because 2.5k is way below my skill level so it wasn’t hard to climb back, then I focused on improving to not only get back to 2.9 today, but to get into diamond 3.1k. Trust me, there is a reason why you are at the rank you are at, and it isn’t anyone else’s fault. No ranked system is perfect. If you aren’t at the top, you will get sht teammates, because diamond players aren’t perfect, plays aren’t, and alot of people say that masters aren’t, and the top 10 lb streamers I watch still have to avoid people. Bad teammates are part of the game and they are part of climbing, you have to deal with it. Removing mmr won’t magically make the players in your bracket not bad, because if they weren’t bad, they’d be carrying you, but you should be the carry
I have a couple conspiracy theorists in the family. They inspired me to look this stuff up on youtube and piss myself laughing at it/them
To do that, it evaluates potential matches by synthesizing an expected win %. The matchmaker is normally really good about creating matches with a win % that is close to 50%,
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20753625906
We make it so that if you win a match, you always gain SR – even if it’s just a little bit – to feel psychologically rewarding
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20758686566#post-16
something i noticed the other day for the first time…after we had a leaver, we were getting stomped obviously so the rest of us left when the timer allowed…and i lost the maximum amount of SR.
How is that fair? I leave to avoid being bullied, bounced and inevitably demolished for the next 10 or 15 minutes…and get penalised the maximum possible. The guy that Actually left the active match i assume only lost the same amount as me?
Also, when are they going to ban mei spawn wall trolls? Last night, we had a mei main ONLY walling people into their spawn, that’s all she did, for entire matches. This guy has been doing it for weeks, possibly months, is being mass reported, yet is still on every night. Now, here’s the real issue - everyone ended up putting him on avoid, and being silver/gold matches, in OZ, at night, the community is tiny…it ended up making it impossible to get a match. We kept resetting the search after 8 minutes or so.
So not only is this mei ruining matches, he’s actively expanding search times, and even making it so no matches can be formed as i’m guessing there was only a handful of people on
You personally could interpret that to mean that they intentionally put bad players to “handicap” good players, while I could personally interpret that to mean that they find 12 players of the same MMR (finding 12 players all as good as each other as far as the matchmaker is concerned) but also have to reconcile groups.
I feel that I have stronger evidence that my interpretation is far more correct, considering the original statement appears here, and the context of the topic is groups. (Note the tad bit wacky gains and losses the topic creator went through in the 4 games)
I think we already went through this before and again, this is left to interpretation. I’ve seen those high-GM streams in Seasons 2/3 where an SR 4600+ player played with an actual, non-decayed Diamond on their team, with 4 other mid-Masters, vs high-Masters/low-GMs. The team with the high GM won, and the high GM player gained 2 SR (the mandatory minimum on a win that Mercer talked about). Players that high only gained a decent amount of SR when all 12 players in the game are above SR 4300, but that’s already a very tiny population.
Or that it is a possibility and that the system is designed to create, what they have determined to be “fair matches.” And since all we have is interpretation of their words, neither of us can definitively say one way or the other. Other than the system does not randomly place you into matches, the system uses MMR to create as close to 50% as possible, and that your SR and MMR are not equal, even if it is within a margin.
There is nothing wrong with feeling that way. We can interpret it both ways, and until the Devs give a definitive answer, neither are completely wrong and theoretical.
Yup interpretation, tho this is in response to your “source” request when stating that SR moves to make people feel better.
On your comparison of people reporting alien abduction phenomena and those who report bad quality matches in OW. Other than both being phenomena one is according to all reports is false which is the alien abduction. While the other according to Blizzard itself is true because of the implementation of 222 due to the in my experience and apparently many others the huge amount of horrible quality matches. The usage of your analogy also works like so: A. Random people report murders. B. Random people report bad quality matches. C. In your opinion people in B are false (even though you have no proof) therefore people in A must be false. Thats not how you determine the validity of reported phenomena.
Unless the phenomena that is under scrutiny is directly correlated then there is no point in basing the validity of one on another.
Imo your usage of the Mandela effect does not apply here since the only descriptor of my experience is that match quality is horrible. I did not described what happened so I could not add false-experience to such a statement. Since it is just an observation of the overall match quality in the game of Overwatch.
Also what gang stalking?
All i know is that creating “even matches” guarantees that you will get sandbagged with worse teammates as a nice reward for have a couple great games in a row.
There is a noticeable difference in teammates during those horrible streaks, that always come at the opportune time.
If you walked on to a basketball court, after playing 4 games with people who know how to shoot and pass… you’d know immediately when you suddenly have people who can’t even dribble the ball. You’d say, “ah, i see. in order to make this match “EVEN” it’s only fair that i have these elementary school kids on my team”
People are clinging to the idea that this is a legit and proper matchmaking system, which is foolish considering Blizz hides EVERYTHING about it behind the scenes. And for three years now, have been getting called out for their matchmaking.
It tries too hard to force an even match, with some hidden metrics that they won’t show to us. And a lot of us can plainly see it.
Now, i always play in a duo. In the same house. For all i know, that’s looked down upon by Blizzard the same way “stay as team” earns you Hard Mode for some reason. Maybe this makes the system easier to spot. It’s often a duo who tests the system to find these suspicious games that seem very handicapped. It’s often the duo who sees hard mode as a punishment for simply doing well in their rank.
But it’s stuff like that that has people frustrated.
I don’t know how it works. I only know that the matchmaking is infuriating and it doesn’t need to be. If you ask me, it FEELS like they’re trying too hard to force even matches to the point where it’s bad to stand out because you earn yourself hard mode. Three years of it, i feel pretty convinced. And it’s a common complaint with the game, that even streamers and high ranks have pointed out.
So yeah, i agree with this thread. Handicapping, if that’s what we’re calling it, is wrong for comp. It’s the entire reason this game will never get the respect it deserves. That ONE decision, to FORCE even matches despite obvious skill differences, is what ruins the game.
Player toxicity is merely a result of that decision.
Once in a while, someone comes along and puts my whole 1,000+ word spiel into just one sentence. This is one of those sentences. Thank you for contributing <3
More great exposition on the problem!
This is something I’m deeply familiar with. I’ve had a lot of really effective partnerships in Overwatch that seemingly failed because of the MMR system sandbagging us.