agreed, or they could just make the MMR public. not just get rid of it, the system is fine except for PBSR.
TL;DR: MMR is not bad, but keeping that number a secret is.
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This is a lie, the only thing keeping you from climbing is your own skill.
If I was playing on your account I have no doubt that I’d win 99% of the games and wouldn’t experience these “forced losses” you speak of.
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Blizzard can keep MMR a secret. Considering a player’s MMR and SR is generally pretty damn close, chances are you have a very good guess at it anyways.
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Agreed.
It’s very simple, if anyone has something to hide from you, don’t trust it. Period.
There is only 1 reason people have to hide something from you, it’s detrimental to them.
Apparently they are afraid of people exploiting the system… Worst excuse ever… Excuses like this only work on people who blindly believe what they are told…
Why would anyone not just go through pains to get rid of the exploit that could have resolved all this uncertainty years ago at this point? Because they know it’s exploitable/exploitative, but want to act like it’s not.
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People seem to be having really hard time understanding what is wrong with the system. It doesn’t just match you with similar MMR/SR, it tries to give each time 50% chance of win. This was confirmed by developers themselves.
If you try to give teams equal chance of winning, there will be very skilled climbing players for blancing throwers or one tricks in a team.
It’s not hard to imagine, if you have less MMR compared to everyone in your SR level, game tries to put someone with even higher MMR to balance the team out. This results in sad season high players with happy season low players getting matched in the same team.
Instead of this, game should just match people with similar SR and MMR - RANDOMLY - at least to some extent. Because otherwise it’s handicaping, just like in Starcraft 2. Imagine if you were to climb to fast in SC2 comp, and game decides to put you in 90% or even lower handicap. That’s what’s happening in Overwatch.
You fall too fast: you get high MMR/same SR players with you. If you climb too fast, you get extremely low MMR/same SR players in your team.
This has shown to be true countless times as people hit season high or season low, they get 20% winrate Genji/Hanzo one tricks in their team. It happened to me consecutively for 6 seasons, I get above 70% performance and high winrate (basicly high MMR compared to SR) and I’ve got 30% winrate Widow mains. The opposite is true as well. I fell from Plat countless times, after hitting lowest point, I get helpful people who use voice chat, don’t instalock or don’t one trick.
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oh they can, but it is in poor taste and against everything that competitive means.
Imagine showing up to an NFL game and you ask the commissioner how to get to the super bowl and he just kinda shrugs his shoulders.
Or if a chess tournament didn’t declare which rule book they were using. I understand everyone knows how to play chess, but every tournament always has official rules.
Opening a box of Monopoly without a rule book in it.
No good, bad Blizzard bad!
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So I may have figured a way out why OP may be correct, despite he has no clue what he is talking about lol
Does Blizz track where you fit in the group in terms of SR, i.e. do you have the highest SR in the group? The lowest?
Or do they not keep track of it at all? If they don’t keep track of it then everything will just average out.
But it would be an interesting way of manipulating the ranks.
I don’t want to hear arguments about that there is not much difference in 1,5 or 20 SR.
I’m asking if they keep track of it or not. I’m not questioning the severity of the tracking if they do it.
hello Wise Kaawumba. Do you have any data on what I just suggested? Where you fit in regarding teammates SR? Thanks.
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Blizzard has officials rules that are always publicly available. I don’t see your point.
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I was not aware. Where are they please?
https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/42673
(Code of Conduct)
Also see the in game report feature
There’s also the other things such as TOS and any other agreement you did
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You took my words at face value and disregarded all the context.
Blizzard needs to publish ALL the rules. How much SR is gained for a win on Hanimura, Volskya, etc…
How much damage does Soldier’s gun do? Helix Rockets.
How is PBSR calculated. If they can’t publish how PBSR works, then get rid of it.
I’ve seen that stats are (correctly) documented on wiki sites. Helix rockets do 120 damage on direct hit, for example.
You don’t need the specifics of PBSR to know that if you perform better (git gud) then you will get more sr points. This is proved by again by the fact that the ranks are ordered by performance alone.
So why do you need the specifics?
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One of the main problems I’ve encountered is having Diamond players drop to bronze and get into placement or just out of placement matches just to troll fresh starting players. At this point the MMR system is broken as it is using the dive number they took rather than the number they had been averaging.
I want Blizz to publish them.
I didn’t say I did. I just said if I don’t have the specifics, get rid of it.
They’re saying a touchdown may be worth 6 maybe 4 points. You just never know.
If you don’t spell out exactly how to gain SR, you cannot call that competitive.
It goes against everything that competition stands for. This isn’t a game of Hearthstone where you opponent’s deck is kept a secret and that is part of the game.
You need a circle around the payload so you know when you’re on it.
If Blizz wants to sacrifice practicality so they can be cool, so be it. I just disagree with some of their choices, regarding not posting DPS numbers. SR number. PBSR numbers.
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Why go through the effort if the numbers already exist?
It’s very easy to spell out how exactly to gain SR: Win. Perform well. Both of these are in a competitive spirit.
You also need to consider the resources that would go into correctly documenting every aspect of PBSR (if any changes were to occur it’d have to be documented again, so this is not a one-time cost). Could something more useful be done with the time?
You’re also assuming the information would be useful. It would probably boil down to git gud, as I’ve outlined earlier.
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Then I want Blizzard to endorse the publishing.
You’re just missing the point of my entire post.
If Monopoly started selling their games without instructions in it, you wouldn’t see a problem with that. I think that is a massive transgression.
We just disagree, that’s all.
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Cuthbert and Kaawumba:
You are both showing very valid points that have given a strong debate between your points of view.
In my opinion, the problem is not MMR, it is the perception of the playerbase that SR is an accurate reflection of a players skill. The hidden MMR is most likely a much closer depiction of a players skill.
The example i would give is the 10s of thousands of players in gold and plat. I would argue there is a low chance they are all of similar skill level. If they were, then the match maker would not take 2+ minutes to find a match each time. Also, how can you think a new player who places as 2200 is the same skill as a seasoned player who has played 1000s of games starting at bronze and ranked up to gold?
Another example is players dropping rank on purpose to enjoy less-stress wins below their actual skill. Or players who pay to be boosted. There are a ton of these players due to the falicy that SR represents your skill accurately.
Anyways, if you stop thinking your skill is based is related closely to your current SR, then you will be less attached to this issue.
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Blizzard has never stated that they track this.
The data that I have is looking at player SR with respect to team SR over many games played. My data for season 5,6 is here, as well as tawT for season 5. SR vs Team SR - Google Sheets
tawT thinks that this data shows manipulation. I think that it shows indirect and muddled consequences of matching by MMR, but displaying SR. Recall that in season 5 SR was bumped below MMR for fifty or so games. The large onset effect went away in season 6.
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That’s essentially a rigged system. Anything that alters your chances or predetermines any sort of circumstances is “rigging”. If it’s only - and I mean ONLY - a calculation of SR, then it’s not rigged anymore. But at the current state with that MMR it’s rigged. You played bad? Get a minus on your MMR and therefor a higher chance of falling in SR, because you don’t belong in an higher SR matchup. Who’s to say that? And how is a mathematical algorithm a good judge at all? And even if it was a good judge - it’s still rigged.
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