SR is a number for ranked play. It goes up if you win, it goes down if you lose. You the amount you win or lose depends on how much SR you have going into the match compared to the SR of the other team + the SR of your team.
If MMR is taken out of the equation, there would be no hidden number that takes stat padding into the equation so that gain and losses are merely effects of winning or losing. A MMR 2800 player may be good mechanically, but what if he doesn’t know how to help out a team? Does that player deserve to rank up even if the selfish stat padding plays are causing team fights to go south thus losing the match?
Ranking up will be slower, yes. But the ranks will also have more meaning. The issue is most players start in silver, gold, and plat. They never had to work for those ranks. If everyone started at bronze, and climbed their way out, the system would be fair.
because some players are just naturally better so they don’t need to be in those ranks
i never touched silver nor bronze, i was in gold for some weeks and next season i was diamond right away, would make little sense to make me stay at 2000 sr where i was placed to slowly climb out.
mmr also calculates which rank you start at, you cannot have this game make everyone start at bronze, it would be unfair for the real bronze players if it put me there with them.
Tiers do not matter. They are just a little icon that makes us feel happy. “I’m a gold/plat/diamond/masters player” is merely a social construct. It’s the SR that matters.
If everyone started at bronze, the better players would move out into silver. Then at silver, the better players there would move out into gold, so on and so forth.
As time goes on, everyone would be where they belong. In our current system, people are placed by a program that gauges skill. Skill is something learned and honed. The program can never be perfect. What if you’re a silver player, but then get thrown into plat on initial placements because of luck?
How is that fair to the other plat players you will queue with? They will be brought down by your lack of game sense. At the very least, in the system i propose, if you start out for the first time in bronze but you’re a better player than most new players, your stomping will benefit other players until you finally reach a rank where it’s difficult to climb.
It’s done by placements.
No one is put in 0 SR, in first placement match, you are placed in ~2350 MMR games. It’s on you how you manage your first placement matches.
If you’re misplaced, play more games & you will see that you can climb if you have enough skill. Or fall.
Exactly. The flaw of the current system makes gold and under less relevant. Which is kind of a bummer. It also makes progress from bronze–> diamond seem less skill based on a smaller scale due to the randomness of people at those skill levels.
There’s no such thing as the perfect system. I’m just not a fan of starting at the middle.
if you play really good on quickplay and the mmr there is like master level, it won’t put you againts golds in your first game. i instantly played with plats then diamonds on my 2nd game
it tests whether or not you can actually play with them, if you keep winning it puts you higher up
no its not, middle tiers are more correct than your own system
it puts players where they perform at, a naturally good player will probably be placed with plats instead of silver or bronze since the mmr thinks you’re too good for them even when you’re a beginner
nobody would want to play competitive if you were in the lower ranks since better players are playing with and againts them every single match
What? My system’s flaw is that everyone starts at the same point. There is no way that the middle tiers will be wrong since everyone has to work to get there. If someone climbed to gold and their teammates are also gold, they know for a fact they all got their the same way, by winning.
Plus, as it is now, many people already don’t like playing comp. It’s full of people who think they are better than the rest of the people at their rank. On that front there is really no difference.
Match Making Rating applies to Platinum as well, so it would be Diamond and under. I think MMR affects everyone on the Competitive Play system, because it precludes many deserving players from reaching (or staying in) the upper ranks. And it artificially floats some players to ranks that they don’t deserve.
I can see it as a hindrance. Making it more difficult for players to climb when they are only against players around their skill. It’s only issue is that it makes SR pointless. We need one or the other. I’m for SR to be the end all be all.
With placements not being good enough to place skill( and repeated placements there for no reason) I find it a more reasonable request to just get rid of them.
But how do we fix the system without resetting SR and starting everyone from square one?
If you are against players around your skill, why should you be climbing? You are already at the correct rank.
I don’t think you understand what SR is, as it has a completely different purpose than MMR. MMR is a “measure of your skill at the game”. Basically, how good the matchmaker thinks you are.
SR is exactly like your tier icons: bronze, silver, gold, etc. They are the same thing, a visual representation of your rank to be compared to other players. Something you earn based on your skill (MMR) a and a few other small factors (like you gotta play enough to not decay if you want to be over 3000). The only difference is SR is more precise, while your tier is imprecise.
I think what you are trying to say is “I want visible MMR”, which while rare is not unheard of. Dota2 just uses visible MMR. Most games hide your MMR and give you some “rank” (I.e. League, CS:GO, etc) just like Overwatch.
Saying “I want to be matchmade by SR” makes no sense, no more than saying “I want to get matches based on my icon”. As if one game bringing you from gold to platinum should swap you from only having platinums in your game to only having golds. I guess in the sense that SR is a number that moves up/down based on winning/losing, it’s not TOO far from being an MMR. But you couldn’t just swap over to SR. There are several things that would need to be changed, which would just make it identical to our MMR in the first place.
On mobile so I can’t quote properly due to screen space.
When I said climb easy, I didn’t clarify. I meant climb easy if you don’t belong in the tier. If you had an invisible mmr of 2200 but an SR of 1500, the game will try to find other players in similar situations. While this is a good system to punish Smurfs, it doesn’t help people who have legitimately improved at the game. It makes tiers pointless. Throw on the fact that placements aren’t close to perfect, all tiers below masters are just crowded with people with widely different skill levels that tiers are basically pointless as is.
( Hey, I got the quote to work!)
I disagree. SR is a number that is earned. You win, it goes up. You lose, it goes down. If I’m in low gold, I expect high silvers to be in my games. If I’m in high gold, I expect low plats. (Never did I say otherwise. I’ll just assume that you’ve heard other arguments that have and was confused. Rather than putting words in my mouth). I agree that the icons don’t matter. But they are merely representative of how much SR that has been earned.
So what you’re saying is that if we have a system that: gives SR, gives players icons based on SR, and shows other players SR; it should all be built around a hidden mmr?
You have a few misunderstandings about the matchmaker, this scenario you are worried about does not happen. Let’s go through it, assuming someone at 1500SR had an MMR equivalent to 2200. For the record I don’t think that’s even possible to happen, but we can pretend it did.
They won’t be matched against “players in a similar situation”, they will be matched against players at their current MMR, 2200. So they will be thrown into gold games with their silver SR.
They will rapidly climb to 2200 SR even with a 50% win-rate due to bonus SR gains.
We know this is exactly how it works both from official statements and in-game evidence. This is what happens to decayed players. This is what happened in early seasons to everyone when placements intentionally dropped your SR (but didn’t touch your MMR).
So there’s no issue at all. If someone somehow ended up in this situation (which I still think is impossible) Overwatch’s system would quickly correct it. I know this personally as a player who has decayed many times.
But SR isn’t just based on winning or losing. You have things like leaving = punished with extra lowered SR, and decay, etc. Surely you wouldn’t want a system where decayed GMs actually play in low diamond!
MMR is already a number that goes up when you win, and down when you lose. That’s the fundamental idea behind all MMR systems. The reasonable interpretation of what you are asking for is to change SR to be a proper MMR, and then use it instead of our hidden MMR. But this is just the same as making MMR visible. Either way, we end up with an MMR we can see as our “rank”.