You do realize that bronze-to-GM streams or paid (or free) boosting services cannot exist if this was true, right?
Anyways, since SR and MMR are closely linked (https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20758686566#post-6), matchmaking cannot see “outliers”, so it can’t possibly distribute strong and weak players evenly as you so like to say.
Remember, you’re saying that MMR is a differentiator between people of the same SR (meaning that MMR can show clearly stronger and clearly weaker players at a same given SR). If you insist on continuing with that, give us hard link evidence of that. And actually post the link (put the link in your reply, and highlight it and press Ctrl+Shift+C when it’s highlighted to Preformat that link so that the forum accepts it). Don’t just copy/paste Blizzard text like you did your opening post.
Counter-example already being a highly-decayed GM playing his usual games upon being active again. Plus the line about MMR and SR being closely linked except for decay.
What’s hard to perceive is how incapable you are of seeing that the system is accurately rating and advancing/reducing player rank.
It all boils down to that, really. You live in a fantasy world where the system isn’t working, not that you play the game anyway. You nod and agree with people insisting such nonsense as the game punishing them for winning a few games with a “rigged” streak.
This whole thread is just a giant monument to Dunning-Kruger. People insistent that the system is the problem and not their own skill.
Which is why, they repeatedly single that portion of the population out when talking of how MMR and SR are involved. They make exceptions due to the decay, which is only fair as they themselves are the ones that put the decay as an incentive to continue playing with the limited pool of players.
Unless they have the data to see how far they dropped and set their SR range with that information. Simple deduction from known variables.
You keep insisting on interchanging SR and MMR. And that MMR and SR is used interchangeably by the Devs. Both of these are false assumptions.
The point of this: is no matter how small the deviation, the handicap occurs. Whether or not this deviation is a detriment is up to interpretation, as the system does not see this as a detriment hence the 50% win possibility prediction. Also whether or not the 50% win chance (not win/loss ratio) forces people to take longer to reach their potential.
These are not outside of the paradigm. You think it is and that it debunks it. These climbs are due to the player out performing their current MMR and performing greater than the players at that SR to consecutive wins. My stance is that this system does not prevent climbing, but, when you are not so far from your current MMR in performance, the 50/50 matches can make it take longer.
Longer, than in comparison, to a pure SR vs SR where in you are faced with opponents of the same or similar enough SR, and you are better, thus giving you the advantage to climb, or the disadvantage and fall accordingly.
This would mean that if you are 2400 and fall to 2200 your inclination would be to climb back to 2400 as you are now facing 2200 SR opponents. The system as it is now, is if you fall to 2200 you are still facing 2400 (as your MMR may not drop due to a loss and your are still, statistically doing well in the matches) opponents (in the same MMR range) to climb back to 2400, and because it is setting up 50/50 matches, you are as likely to fall further 50/50, as you are to climb back up.
I have given you evidence, and you have yourself, to display that:
MMR and SR have different formulae on wins/loss
a) MMR has a minimum of 0 gain/loss
b) SR has a minimum gain/loss which is Greater than 0
SR “Chases” MMR
a) This implies that SR is for the most of the time either above or below MMR
MMR is the sole component to matchmaking to make 50/50 matches.
Since MMR is translated as a number, the logical conclusion is that to make the matches fair is to make both sides as equal as possible.
I suck, I am silver, I know I am bad, I have been playing since November. I do not blame the system for me being bad.
I am here merely pointing out that the system is using a hidden number to balance out matches, and logically this means that people are put into matches that are based on this hidden number and then must prove themselves against this match to climb or fall to get closer to their MMR (hidden).
Therefore the potential that this will lengthen the time to gain the SR to closer match their MMR and by facing opponents that match their MMR which may be higher than their SR. To which: You need to prove to the system against players of your own MMR to climb or fall to your true hidden measure.
What about this system gets everyone so pissed? Of course you “prove” to the Matchmaker that you’re better. That’s like “proving” to Chess ELO that you’re better by winning. Yeah the MMR is hidden, and a bunch of people opposed to Cuthbert’s crusade against reality have pointed out that they are fine with the number being revealed; I’m opposed to it on the grounds that it helps no one and encourages doomed attempts to game it, but honestly don’t care that much.
by facing opponents that match their MMR which may be higher than their SR.
This is the crux of the nonsense. You assume that if you’re some super secret hero version of your current SR, you’re punished by playing against similar “secret heroes” and thus prevented from crushing all those scumbag players who are “normal” for their SR and taking your rightful place in elo heaven. This is what Cuthbert thinks is happening.
If that happened then smurfs would routinely encounter each other at a very high rate. That does not happen. At any given SR you’re facing opponents whose MMR are above or below their SR at some typical variance. If you MMR is extremely high for some mysterious reason, then you’ll find yourself rocketing up the ranks like bronze->gm challenges will show you happening. The game is never punishing skill. If anything it rewards it very heavily until the highest ranks where it merely slows down to “fair” rewards for win/loss.
I am not angry. I am just adding to the dialog with a differing point of view.
Here is the question: What is wrong with wanting to prove oneself against opponents of their SR range alone to see if they are better then or worse than those of the same SR range and not a hidden MMR?
When you want to increase your ELO in Chess, are you given an opponent that is of the same or similar ELO, maybe slightly higher? Or do you just get set with a player they have determined is of the same potential skill (Which may be below your ELO) and have to beat them to rank up?
Miniscule or not, it is still a hidden variable. We have no idea if we are within 100 or 10 of our MMR. That is the point of this excercize.
Edit: I would be happy with a slide graphic showing a scale for SR and a yellow dot for the SR and a red line for our MMR. That way we can see the progress of skill vs the SR raising and lowering to chase it.
THis way we do not need to see the actual number of MMR, or maybe a red bar to where MMR range is?
I don’t suspect it’ll change. It enforces grinding to the overwhelming majority, and to the OW team, that equals success. What they actually have is a playerbase who is unsatisfied because everything feels so volatile. How can a person go from silver to plat, plat to gold, gold to plat, plat to silver, back and forth and have any sense of confidence in the game?
How does a person say “I’m a silver player” and actually have a relative understanding of what that means? SR is completely arbitrary unless you’re the 1% of the 1% of players who are blessed with godlike FPS talent.
You are so completely right. Handicapping turns Competitive Play into a senseless grind.
Because of MMR/handicapping, I think there is no such thing as a “true rank,” especially not below Diamond (which is where MMR/handicapping goes into effect).
The system knows how far the SR is in relation to MMR and weather or not it needs to adjust based on statistical data. The handicapping is making sure that climb in SR (or lowering) is as long as can be, barring the system not knowing that you (Or others in your team) are going to out perform (or under-perform) the MMR prediction.
You go full ad hominem. You tell people to play every hero because they complain about the system that drops you with 5 dps mains? What about 5 Mercy mains, force every Mercy to play something else?
You are talking non-sense really. Your arguments have no substance.
Exactly what I feels like for me. I reach Master with 100+ hours in a season, ain’t nobody got time for that. So I just troll here and there. And I am 100% sure we get trolls and leavers after a 3+ win streak. And endorsement system does not work because its not even made such that we get high level endorsement people when we have high endorsement.
I think it the opposite can be argued as Diamond and above have decay and that would be the only instance where a person can realistically have a discrepancy between their MMR or their SR.
But it doesn’t rig games to have a forced 50% win rate because bliz said they don’t do that.
It doesn’t create artificial plateaus in skill that people can never learn to push past BECAUSE they never go against people better than themselves.
Then… why at 2400 is the MMR matching me against 3700’s? I’ll tell you why, because the Hidden MMR can be manipulated by the player directly once you truly understand how it works, and you simply haven’t the slightest clue how it works. (That’s ALSO why I don’t do comp, and why I only do QP, because that is the only place I CAN control what skill level I play against just by knowing how to dupe and manipulate the Hidden MMR system. - That and I’m not a scrub despite what people think about gold players)
The REASON it can’t be manipulated in comp is because of the rank system. If there was no rank system, I can manipulate the MMR to place me against masters even GM’s if I wanted to.
And we ALL know that the MatchMaker system tries to force a 50% win rate which you yourself just verified is how it works, while blizzard says it doesn’t.
So which is it?
If the system isn’t rigged, then how exactly would you define it?