SR is not used for comp.
Feel free to link to where they say it is.
Then what is it then? If not SR ultimately, then what is it for? It sure shows relative SR on the match, so what’s the purpose it serves?
There is a separate MMR for Comp, and a separate for QP; the SR you have is obviously being used to group you. This is why the games in one mode can vary more than the other.
This is false. MMR is used in Competitive Play as well as Quick Play.
Also false. You must be joking?
https://twitter.com/ww/status/867570441182826499
“SR isn’t used to make a match.”
If you still want to remain on the “MMR is used to differentiate between good and bad players at the same SR” hill, you’re free to do so.
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So then what is it based on? For instance the wiki says exactly this:
Players can participate in Competitive Play as a group, though the following restrictions will be applied:
- For Diamond and below, the SR of each group member must be within 1000 of the participating group members. This SR range between the group members is reduced to 500 for Master players, and 350 for Grandmaster players.
So… if that is incorrect (since we all obviously follow Blizzard Tweets)… what is used to make the group?
Its obvious that it groups with 1000 SR and everyone observed that it seemed to “spread” to around 1200 past that once RQ came in.
I’d like to see if looking at open profiles if it ever shows the SR range greater than 1200 or so; I bet it doesn’t. SR is the output number; other factors maybe used, but there appears also to be bracket. Help me understand then.
PS: I also strongly suspect that the SR mention in that tweet is quite possibly only in reference to the question of SR decay…
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Matchmaking is strictly made on MMR, but it also factors in groups since Competitive isn’t solo-queue only.
First, check Kaawumba’s topic. It has everything Blizzard has said about matchmaking (in particular see the References section)
The entire thing about SR and MMR is that I always found it to mean that you have your MMR that’s used in matchmaking, but it’s not a human-friendly value to read (that part about not for human readability is a Blizzard statement). I always took it to mean that your SR is a human-readable translation of your MMR, and the reason both SR and MMR exist and not only SR is the inactivity decay factor.
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matchmaking is NOT purely based on MMR.
if it were so, overachieving gold players could be thrown together directly with master players without any problems. And why would you keep ranks at all in this scenario?
SR is your player pool (± 500 SR).
MMR then determines the team constellations.
It‘s impossible for silvers to play with gms. even if there were gm smurfs IN silver, they wouldn’t be able to play against real gms at all. thats like, the whole point…
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Of course it is, but to divorce this from indicated SR is meaningless.
SR is for Comp. Its directly tied to a behind-the-scenes MMR for comp.
MMR for QP, is for QP alone.
Both employ matchmakers; there is contradictory statements about how and if they interact. One school of thought says they don’t, but i recall distinctly reading Blizzard saying that both account level and SR actually are factors in the matchmaker for QP. While its technically true that MMR /= SR, it seems to be directly clear that one (SR) is directly derived from the other (MMR) for the system to make any sense in pairing teams this value has to mean the same thing.
Your entire post can only go with the assumption that MMR is a value that has nothing to do with SR. What we have from Blizzard is that your SR is basically your MMR in a human-readable format but it has to account for decay. What we have from Cuthbert (and I stress, it’s a VERY incorrect definition based on what Blizzard has said before nuking their old forums) is that MMR is a value that differentiates between “good” and “bad” players at the same SR.
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You have separate MMRs for each mode (including Arcade modes, particularly Arcade modes that have Competitive play such as Competitive CTF and Competitive Deathmatch). This means that your MMR in Quick Play never affects your MMR in Competitive mode, meaning that when you play your very first placement match in Competitive, your Quick Play history is not accounted for at all. Your very first Competitive match would be in the dead middle of the ladder, presumably MMR 0 (which would translate to somewhere in mid-Gold).
That being said, one of the many criticisms of Ranked play is that Quick Play history should have been factored in for an account’s very first placement match.
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Everything I’ve said is based on a direct quotation from principal Overwatch designer, Scott Mercer. The quotation is at the top of the original post in this thread.
What do you think is incorrect from what I’ve said?
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Nowhere in Mercer’s post directly says or even implies that 50/50 matchmaking means that the matchmaker knows which players are “good” or “bad” at the same SR and distributed as such. That was 100% your fabrication. The entire 50/50 thing simply means get people at the same rank and account for groups. Unless you think that it’s ok to have a 6-stack of Diamonds vs all plat solo queuers.
In fact, Jeff straight up said that SR and MMR works similarly:
“MMR works very similarly to SR. There are some minor differences that make it feel worse though, when you just watch that number. For example, it’s possible to win a match and not gain any MMR. We make it so that if you win a match, you always gain SR – even if it’s just a little bit – to feel psychologically rewarding. But MMR’s entire goal is creating fair matches – which isn’t always fun to look at and certainly not “rewarding” for players looking for pats on the back or a sense of progression. So SR “chases” your MMR very closely, except in a rare case of severe SR decay at GM/Masters/Diamond level of play.”
So no, MMR is NOT a handicapping value. It’s your rank and the only thing that the matchmaker uses, and the matchmaker does not recognize “good” and “bad” players at the same SR because it doesn’t even look at SR (also stated by Will Warnecke, the lead developer for Overwatch).
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What do you think MMR is for, if not handicapping?
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Why do you think there are two values? What would you need two for? SR alone would be more than enough, in your opinion. Nevertheless, there is another “secret” value that nobody officially knows about what it does or what it says. Strange isn’t it?
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MMR is for… (wait for it) … matchmaking.
When it’s stated that SR and MMR are closely linked except for highly-ranked players that undergo SR decay due to inactivity, I think that in itself is an obvious reason for two values and not just one.
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A true ladder matches based on how it ranks. SR. In a fair system, SR is the end-all-be-all. It’s what the player sees, and it’s all the system uses. If SR is fit-for-purpose: Randomly selecting players from within a small SR band, is all you ever need to ship a fair match.
MMR exists only to rig games, thus making the rank labels arbitrary. If matches are handicapped, contrived, and load-balanced for “closeness”, the ladder becomes false and anti-competitive.
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Why would anything be required for matchmaking besides SR? What do you think the matchmaker uses MMR for?
The concept of PBSR is a total non-starter for me. If we adhere to the principles of equity, transparency, and fairness in competition, I don’t see how it is possibly a thing.
By the way, if you want to talk on Discord please reach out to me on the email address listed in my YouTube channel details.
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The funny thing is that I keep having to reiterate that SR isn’t used in matchmaking at all. MMR is the only thing used for matchmaking, and the reason it exists is for decay due to higher ranked players (Diamond and above) not playing and losing SR as a result. It’s not used for “handicapping” good and bad players because “handicapping” does not exist in this game. If you actively play, your SR IS your MMR.
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Do you have a source/excerpt for this? The references we have, said it exists at all ranks, and is for “fairness”. Their notion of “fairness” is more akin to closeness and engagement, if you check the patents.
That is not how it works at all. Please review the many citations we have for this. The matchmaker uses MMR to ensure “fair” matches, which is 1. rigging towards a match outcome, and 2. handicapping by giving the higher/lower mmr players a dis/advantage.
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That is an absurd fallacy. Why would Blizzard have two different names for the same system?
MMR is not the ranking system, that’s SR. Let’s please cut the nonsense and agree on that point, or I am done arguing with you.
I’ll ask differently: if MMR isn’t for ranking and it isn’t for handicapping, what do you think it’s for?