Algorithmic Handicapping is Wrong for Online Games

[GreyFalcon-11737]

@Cuthbert-11649

Ideal for whom?

Videogame players.

“Not too easy, not too difficult” is the goal.

As any good gameplay designer would tell you.

[Cuthbert-11649]

@Goldlantern-1543

Firstly, I did respond to your topic on its merits. Secondly, it’s intellectual cowardice to make up false support for your arguments when there isn’t any elsewhere.

Okay, let’s see…

@Goldlantern-1543

Of course the forums overwhelmingly thinks things other than their own performance are the primary reason for losses in ranked games. No poll will ever say otherwise. Most players aren’t self-aware enough to realize that matchmaking isn’t a problem. It’s actually very good in this game.

So, your argument is that polls on this subject don’t matter because players are biased to favor it. And you think that most people lack the self-awareness to realize that matchmaking isn’t a problem? My argument is about handicapping. Do you think that ranked, competitive matches should be algorithmically handicapped?

[Cuthbert-11649]

@GreyFalcon-11737

Videogame players.

“Not too easy, not too difficult” is the goal.

As any good gameplay designer would tell you.

Gameplay designers work for publishers, who have different interests from players.

[Hanqz-2506]

@Cuthbert-11649

In 4 years and 5 polls on Blizzard/Activision forums, players have consistently voted that handicapping (MMR) is wrong for Competitive Play. The silence of game holding companies like Activision/Blizzard is not an answer to our concern. If they will not participate in the discussion, consumers and citizens must proceed without them.

Where are these polls?

[Cuthbert-11649]

@CelineDion-11727

Please don’t unperson me! I exist! I have thoughts and opinions of my own! I’m a real, unhappy person all my own!

Seriously, I have seen this happen several times now in the forum. Really ugly mob dynamic.

[Cuthbert-11649]

@Hanqz-2506

Where are these polls?

The old “Battlenet” forum of Overwatch (now decommissioned) included a poll feature that posters could include in their threads. I ran three such formal polls on the Battlenet forum, two informal threads on this new forum, consistently getting more than 85% support from forum users.

Thanks for asking!

[GreyFalcon-11737]

@CelineDion-11727

Goldlatern and GreyFalcon are the same person. Note the similar compound name and similar writing style.

Checkmate!

With my post count, do you really think I got time for alts?

[GreyFalcon-11737]

@CelineDion-11727

Interested to hear an argument for the downsides to transparency. Why can’t we know the algorithm? Is it an intellectual property thing? Would it make it easier to game the system? (And if so, wouldn’t your MMR naturally lower if you abused it to get to a higher rank?)

Well, partially because people will just “game the system”, like back when a ton of Mercy rezzes gave you a ton of SR (during Mass Rez), leading to Mercy players deliberately letting people die so they can pump up their numbers.

[DRUNKINJEDI-11320]

wow you really put time and effort in this topic and post for that i give an A+. now comes the challenging part reading all of it. on the basic premise tho i do agree that the wierd matchmaking/handicapping that even blizzard admitting to the patent is kind of frustrating sometimes. i do remember people saying that it helps NEWCOMERS and NEW people picking up the game so i do like that part. wish they did that for every online competitive game

[GreyFalcon-11737]

That said, Overwatch 2 Tank MMR is going to be a lot better.

And that’s the main thing that’s been pushing the game away from those ideal 50/50 matches.

1 tank vs 1 tank is a ton easier to match than 2vs2 tanks. And a strict win/loss with 1 Tank player, is more representative of their impact towards a win.

Also roughly 2x as many tank players, and more clutch potential for Tanks.

[FlankSinatra-2631]

I can see why people would want transparency - I do think this is the future.

As per GDPR, you need to explicitly state what you are going to do with the data you have on the users.

However, I think it is quite ridiculous how:

1. OP is presenting their assumptions on how the matchmakers works as near fact when they literally have no idea
2. How this is being presented as abuse

Attention is the lifeblood on these companies so I am sure that engagement is one of the metrics they will optimize for.

In game development, the ‘flow channel’ is the golden area between too easy and too difficult that maintains engagement.

I’m sure the primary purpose of the matchmaker is to aim for this.

One assumption is that both SR (precise SR, not having SR within an acceptable boundary) and MMR is used for matchmaking.

If it’s just MMR, then this entire post is invalid and the OP has zero idea if this is the case or not.

[ChiefWamBam-1978]

Or, perhaps, it’s a mile long wall of text about something many don’t even care this deeply about

Does anyone even read the terms of service? I know I don’t

[HintOfMalice-2431]

@CelineDion-11727

People just aren’t interested in clear, coherent arguments.

Not sure why you have to make it about this. Seems pretentious. People just aren’t interested in reading a 50,000 character dissertation about a very minor issue in their limited and valuable downtime.

[Cleopatra-21937]

Congratulations, OP, you finally figured out, that creator of one of most addictive games known to mankind(WoW gave us memes “to have no life” and “elf lv 80” as synonyms of someone addicted to high degree) used their knowledge in Overwatch.

[Cleopatra-21937]

@FlankSinatra-2631

In game development, the ‘flow channel’ is the golden area between too easy and too difficult that maintains engagement.

I’m sure the primary purpose of the matchmaker is to aim for this.

Issue is that it happens at expense of experienced players. Creating “bait and switch” situation, when you are no longer given good teammates, that can carry you - now YOU are teammate, that has to carry someone.

[Romulus-11755]

Imagine writing an entire dissertation as to why you are a hard stuck gold player.

[rhainsict-1418]

@Cuthbert-11649

@Goldlantern-1543

Of course the forums overwhelmingly thinks things other than their own performance are the primary reason for losses in ranked games. No poll will ever say otherwise. Most players aren’t self-aware enough to realize that matchmaking isn’t a problem. It’s actually very good in this game.

players are biased to favor it

The “it”, of course being, they favor support that reinforces putting less effort into achieving the same result as those who put in more effort.

So yes, in general, it is fair to assume the general response to those polls is skewed.

@Cuthbert-11649

Do you think that ranked, competitive matches should be algorithmically handicapped?

The game isn’t algorithmically handicapped, the game and supporting software is designed to give both teams a more balanced opportunity of winning the match.

@CelineDion-11727

I’m a real, unhappy person all my own!

You good bro??

@Hanqz-2506

Where are these polls?

A great question, in fact

@Cuthbert-11649

The old “Battlenet” forum of Overwatch (now decommissioned)

Very convenient…

@DRUNKINJEDI-11320

wish they did that for every online competitive game

Can you give me an example of a mainstream competitive video game that doesn’t use an SR AND MMR based system?

I can give you examples of games I’ve played that do use it.

• Overwatch
• CSGO
• Valorant
• League of Legends

These are the only competitive video games I’ve played. I’m interested in seeing some games that use a different approach and yet nobody has been able to give me an example so I’m still waiting.

@HintOfMalice-2431

People just aren’t interested in reading a 50,000 character dissertation about a very minor issue in their limited and valuable downtime.

In the amount of time it would take for someone to read this, they could get a VOD review done and be well on their way towards improving at the game and understanding how to be a real competitor.

@CelineDion-11727

bad-faith arguments

@Kaedi-11739

Win streaks and loss streaks are common, but are not related to your actual skill rating or MMR. Naturally of course the higher you climb the more difficult the matches will get (that is the point of a ranked ladder of any competitive game). It’s also not uncommon to ride on your emotions (get energized when you win, get tilted when you lose). Anyone who says there are “forced wins or losses” in Overwatch are fooling themselves.

Here is a handy detailed guide to matchmaking and skill rating in Competitive Overwatch.

The rating and matchmaking system is confusing, and a good overview does not appear to be available. The official overview1 is incomplete and does not answer a number of common player questions and concerns. This information below is gathered from sporadic developer posts and videos, salted with my own experience and experiments, various forum threads, and watching streams. Note that since Blizzard does not give exact algorithms, I do have to fill in some gaps, or leave some items unknown. Final…

WyomingMyst provides a much better summation of winning and losing in Overwatch. And the link they shared in the same thread is much more in-line with how software is more likely to be written.

People dismiss his post because he negates human error in game play. Which is the biggest factor in all of this.

[Krotoan-1841]

@CelineDion-11727

Or maybe we could realize how reductive this line of thinking is and move on

Your forum account didn’t exist until 8 hours ago… it’s only actions are to “like” this thread and reply here.
it’s a reasonable deduction.

while you could be an uber lurker who suddenly found a cause you wanted to add your voice to… it’s pretty unlikely.

@CelineDion-11727

I just don’t think such an effective piece of rhetoric should be dismissed by personal attacks, red herrings, etc.

… no but srs… this is the overwatch general forums. That’s what happens here.

[RobotWizard-116887]

@Cuthbert-11649

For the SR system to really work, it must be the only system. Teams should not be “balanced” based on anything besides their SR and their group size. Throw all the handicapping/MMR metrics out the window. If it is not possible to make matches with groups under those conditions, then competitive play should be solo-queue only.

I’ll add some extra fields and it would be ok.

For the cost function - The pity timer, a weighting for games depending on how long they have been queueing for - and yes, that is what the ticket system uses.

And Role SR width - not only do you want people to be close in SR to each other, you want more the players within a role being close to each other. You can have DPS and Tank have different SRs, but you want ALL of the tank players close to each others SR, and the DPS to be close to each others SR. This is because roles have different levels of impact at different ranks, and playing mix and match isn’t a good plan.

Contraints - You still need constraints around SR range, you will still need constraints around blocks.

Here is the thing, I kind of expect the current system to be VERY close to this already.

The REAL hidden thing is how they calc how much SR you get on a win / loss

The lack of transparency is annoying though.

@CelineDion-11727

Would it make it easier to game the system?

I have abused the system. Got 2 ENTIRE ranks outside of where I should have been doing so. Knowing how match makers work helps if you want to abuse them.

But honestly, there isn’t a good way around stopping that kind of abuse, so, yeah, I think transparency is a good thing.

HOWEVER, people will complain regardless of what it looks like.

@Goldlantern-1543

Most players aren’t self-aware enough to realize that matchmaking isn’t a problem. It’s actually very good in this game.

Yes it is!

[xx9-1969]

@Cuthbert-11649

I assert that the implementation of Activision Publishing Inc.’s patented matchmaking invention in Overwatch’s “Competitive Play” violates reasonable expectations of fair and transparent competition, by algorithmically handicapping players’ ranked matches. I further assert that Activision/Blizzard’s branding of a handicapped game mode as ‘ranked Competitive Play’ is false advertising, enforceable under U.S. Code, “Section 54. False advertisements; penalties.”

Prove it.

Also, this post is hilarious.