"Adding new heroes wont fix queue times"

probably because theres not enough players , why else…
if theres nobody to play those heroes, why would they release them, thats why echo was made into dps, because theres more dps players left, so they gave them a hero to keep them in game, and the queue still remained the same, so no harm done

Tank and support queues went up, though…

But new tanks can make things more broken. Orisa was fine until they put Sigma in the game. Sigma essentially added negative one tanks to the game; he got nerfed into non-existence, and he took Orisa with him.

That has more to do with the devs adding yet another overloaded kit and not proactively balancing when it posed a problem. Something they claimed they would do more frequently. What needs to happen is less overloaded kits. If sigma was just the rock throw and the barrier for abilities he’d have been fine. DM already exists. OW is supposed to be a game about fitting 6 pieces of a puzzle together to build various comps. That idea is thrown out the window when design philosophy seems to take some of the new heroes and load them up with so much that they effectively function as 2 pieces of that puzzle by themselves.

Make a unique design and keep their ability load out simple. That way the hero can work their way into various comps. Instead what the devs did was make a jack of all trades that forced their way into relevance. Notice how the last few heroes just did too much.

Bap could have worked without regen burst
WB could have without default CC all over his kit
Sigma could have work without succ
Echo could have worked without the beam

In most of those cases heroes were given an extra ability that could have been saved for a later hero instead of tacked on making that hero overloaded and able to do too much. Hero design is moving away from them having one identifiable feature about said hero and instead being capable of multiple things, which is hurting the game balance. The one dimensional heroes are much easier to balance because there is one tool they function around. And if you notice the ones that cause problems either have too many tools or were given an extra one that throws off their balance.

The point is Sigma as a hero didn’t break the game, Sigma being able to do too many things broke the game. There’s a mistake being made with the newer heroes where people are assuming that an overloaded kit means a more skillful hero when all that’s happened is that they have forced stagnant metas because they don’t leave room for a valid reason to play other heroes over them. That is until they themselves get nerfed to near uselessness.

I have no prob with that…Variety is great but it won’t fix times…by all means add more tanks/supports…won’t change the fact that people want to dps and that it will still be the most in demand role

1 hero wouldn’t really make much of a difference.
3 or 4 though? Definitely.

Anyways, the support q is also pretty similar to the tank q.
i mean, would you rather q for a role with more or less heroes?

Jeff’s likely confirmed this through data. But I can’t help thinking having only a handful of tanks/supports hurts those roles somehow. Even if it’s just boredom. 4+ years, 6 or 7 hero’s. That’s a loooooong time to be playing the same thing.

Here’s the thing: Tanks and Support heroes are restricted by the design of their role (the community associating supports strictly with healers doesn’t help either). DPS have far more potential variety in their design. That’s a big part of why there are more DPS heroes than Tanks or Supports.

It’s also important to remember that the forums are a place of few, vocal individuals who often have very extreme and poorly rationalized opinions. You seeing a lot of posts about a certain issue doesn’t mean that it’s an actual issue for the majority of the player base. There are far better ways and places for them to look at to see what the player base actually thinks.

His analogy never worked. It neglects the fact that they took 90% of the taste away from chocolate and strawberry and making it more and more like vanilla, both customer and staff mocking the people who like chocolate and strawberry who are sticking around despite the drastic drop in actual amount of chocolate and strawberry flavor, and that the store suddenly decided it would only sell neapolitan from now on*.

*This might change a little with open queue competitive. It still won’t undo the damage from 2-2-2 which I see as an entirely negative decision.

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Oh I’m no fan of forced role lock…I just disagree with the notion that the problems it created are due to there not being enough tanks or dps…it’s not a # of heroes problem

It would help a lot, but I agree it isn’t the only factor. Jeff seems to think tank and support were just always vastly lower picked than DPS, and that just isn’t true. They pushed huge amounts of support and tanks away with the D.Va and Mercy changes, and they’ve been pushing people more and more to the DPS role because people know that outside of Symmetra and Sombra your character is far less likely to be made into something either unrecognizable or just straight up garbage.

One thing i would love to see is: Symmetra back as support! Focused on protection and utility, while dealing with lower healing capabilities. She could be a support, who can block damage and mitigate damage-numbers like Nano-boost, just in a smaller amount and only heals a percentage of the amount she actually blocked with her shield to protect her allies.

Symmetra never was ment to be a damage hero in the first place, since her kit was utility and suriviability improving oriented. I rly never understood why she got reworked just to get put in a role she actually isn’t.

Hey, you like to do thinkpieces about the tank lineup right?

Quote for context: what would you think about Orisa switching from projectile to hitscan? I’d be interested in hearing your writeup on that in it’s own thread.

Did he say that ? That doesn’t make sense at all.

DPS has 17 heroes to chose from
Tank has 8

In what universe would that not significantly influence the queue times … :o:
Is this an out-of-season April fools joke ?

And you would be the exception to the rule. There will be a few here and there. But not in significant enough numbers to effect the ques. We didn’t see an influx of tank players with the addition of any of the tanks they have added. Sure, it is good for the tank players to get some more options. And I am all for it. But, it wont change the ques.

They have been since I started playing…at release. :wink:

They have always been less. IF you were a player that would make the sacrifice and play tank/support when the rest of the team instant locked dps to try and salvage the game you really felt it. I think a lot of people didn’t realize that many players felt forced to flex in order to make a game work and assumed they were tank/support players. There has always been a significant population difference.

Mei would like to have a word with you.

Honestly there are a lot of dps that need help, serious help, to be viable in more than niche situations.

She got reworked to fit the role people were using her in.

They should balance the existing heroes properly before releasing new heroes…
And if they give a hero (Echo) an ultimate where they arent able to make her die when she dies while copying an enemy hero then they should at least balance her properly and not release her into competitive in a game breaking state. The game itself can be as good as it can… if the gameplay is not satisfying the game dies for sure. And thats exactly the point Blizzard either doesnt understand or doesnt want to understand. There are other shooter that feel more satisfying when playing. Blizzard has to remember again, that games exist to provide fun and not simulate a chore (wow bfa is literally a chore simulator for example).

Imagine creating a new hero for one purpose only… to counter a meta… of course that hero will be broken. Overwatch on release was in a state where it was balanced at around 80% today its not even balanced properly for 30%. Of course it is destined to fail. And of course people who play broken heroes enjoy the game… while others are frustrated and quit sooner or later. There will be a time where those people, who enjoy broken heroes and tell us “they are ok as they are!” where they are gonna sit in q for 30min for silver/gold game.

But those people used her in the first place pretty wrong tbh.
She was simply played like Brig nowadays - but she lacked in healing capabilities tho. So - like i see - no one really gets the point behind it