there is a substantial time difference here, Moira was dominant on 2/2/2 basically 2 weeks after that patch happened (the one with Sigma) up until last patch, if Moira in fact needs buffs we need 2 things to confirm it:
time for the meta to stabilize and for experimenting phase to settle down
Baptiste nerfs
Why nerfs on bap? because he’s been dominant for a whole patch cycle now and there is enough evidence that proof how strong he has become… if after bap is toned down she still remains at the bottom then buffs would be in order for her
Though I advocate more for mechanical changes + buffs than simply numbers increasing
And whose fault is this ? You were warned Role Queue was going to be problematic and that devs wouldn’t rebalance most heroes. Sigma and Moira paid the price and I guess every new hero will also pay the same price as they’re going to be the key to every new meta.
Echo is not even out yet and we could already predict a nerf coming. That’s really stupid in my opinion.
Moira did need buffs apparently, prior to Role Queue. They tried something with the improved fade (and it was a mess). I still think Moira was fine prior to her recent nerf and she still is despite the 65 HPS healing.
I even think she might get further nerfs as devs didn’t nerf what the forums wanted : her orb (especially damage orb).
The support heroes witch hunt should come to and end some time, in my opinion. Baptiste is fine, so was / is Moira. The game just suffers from all the new issues the Role Queue has created. That’s the real enemy to the game, not the heroes.
Or simply remove Role Queue or improve it ASAP. I can’t image OW2 having current Role Queue in it. It simply is too problematic.
I agree to disagree. Role Queue is the one change (and probably the only one) I truly despise on Overwatch. I’ve already made a lot of posts explaining why I think that is.
Don’t worry, I won’t be explaining this all over again, so yeah, let’s just agree to disagree.
Getting one hit killed is also excruciatingly unfun but they don’t nerf the heroes that can do that, at least hack can be stopped and isn’t a guaranteed death sentence
The shield nerf has made immortality a much stronger ability, which in turn has given a big boost to Baptiste.
That’s why this week he’s completely skyrocketed against her (and every other support) in only a week. He was essentially double buffed in comparison to her. Not only did his own synergy increase a lot, but she was hard nerfed. Now Moira’s pickrate has plummeted to the lowest support period.
That’s not a healthy drop in something that still favors her.
you said it yourself, baptiste is overloaded, if Moira wouldn’t have been nerfed, both would have pushed every other support away, I think nerfing Moira was warranted but buffing bap this hard was the mistake
Moira’s effect on double shield was barely the reason for her to be strong, it favored her, I’m not denying that but Moira’s numbers have always been busted and she has always been relevant except when utility was so important that healing took the backseat (brigitte, Lucio)
not to mention the fact that she plummeted as a kneejerk reaction from the community, people like you who think that 65 hps is not enough simply drop the character and people who love to optimize everything in this game would have also drop her JUST to milk baptiste in time before he gets nerfed. Moira’s pickrate will stabilize over time, she won’t be number 2 (1 is bap) but the distribution will be a tad more equal and then what?
That’s why blizz can’t simply buff her now, we need time to figure out where she’s really at and a single week is not enough no matter what overbuff says
Well, with a good team behind her she is amazing, if the team isn’t coordinating and/or the Sombra plays solo she’s pretty useless. I’d like to think Bastion is in the same position, it all depends on your team.
She’s actually consistently underperfomed for the past 2 years in high ranks. There are videos of streamers screaming at Moira teammates for throwing, just for picking her. For every meta except double shield, utility has been more important because just getting healing to teammates hasn’t been an issue and good players know how to avoid damage.
It’s arguable that her design was flawed and needed changing. But statisically speaking she was not a strong hero. She was always the strongest hero in bronze and silver, but even in gold whether or not she was the best was dependent on gold meta with Brig, Mercy, and Ana all better than her at various points throughout her history. By the time you got to high ranks, this was the first time she hadn’t been pretty useless on ladder.
I don’t think a single meta is enough to put that drastic of a nerf on a hero that’s statisically underperformed for years. And I’m not at all surprised that it has caused her win and pickrate to drastically plummet. That’s what you’d expect to see if you hard nerf a hero that was meta because of synergy rather than power.
Edit
I wish they had taken the same restraint they showed Rein and waited for the meta to shift and then adjusted her if she still needed it.
this is the only thing I agree with, all of the stats talk is honestly just false, Moira has been a consistent hero throughout all ranks since forever, yes perhaps GM is the place where she needed more than healing but that didn’t stop her from becoming meta as soon as 2/2/2 hit nor was Moira at the bottom of the list, ever
you’ll say it’s because of double shield and I disagree, you can’t prove that’s the reason either and correlating it to her current state overlooks several other variables so, save yourself some time
Your problem comes from what you just edited, you think they didn’t give enough time for her to adjust which I think I can agree with but at the same time there comes a point when you have to say enough is enough, this hero has a ton of strengths and barely any weaknesses, you have no way to prove that she wouldn’t have been Queen and King next to baptiste either so your speculation is just that
at this point, the same as with the other poster, it’s your opinion vs mine, I respect yours as much as that might surprise you but that’s about it
The statistic thing most certainly isn’t false. She’s been a good choice but not meta choice throughout all of her history in mid-low ranks, but other healers did better than her gold and up at various points. She just wasn’t that special.
She was also unquestionably bad in GM, which is where meta is basically decided. It was the entire reason for her cancelled buff.
I also doubt meta would’ve been Bap+Moira because neither have a defense ult.
Anyway, we’ll have to just agree to disagree, like you said. There is no way to know what would have happened after the current meta shift because Blizzard did not show her that restraint. She could’ve returned to her pre-222 perfomance or she could’ve remained very powerful because 222 changed everything.
So all we can have is opinion based off guesses about historical trends and current metas.
Every account is now private by default. Few even realize this, let alone want to make theirs public.
How on earth is that equivalent to all active players before?
As said, Overbuff hasn’t even bothered to update it to remove the “Defense” category in what – a year now? A very simple thing for them to change. Their stats are completely bogus and anyone who puts a grain of salt into them is kidding themselves.
Active users of Overbuff, not Overwatch. Your stats only counted toward the total if you had checked them in the last few weeks.
So only active users of their product counted. Profiles that were never checked or only checked once and then never checked for years didn’t count.
The vast majority of people checking that often also were willing to unprivate to maintain access to their statistics. Enough so that their stats were unaffected.
Overbuff being lazy about something that is primarily a cosmetic difference doesn’t change their stat collection method is good enough for surveying and they have continued to be close to what the devs have stated with stats (on the rare occasion they offer them) again and again.
You need to look at this week for her current state. She’s currently at number 2 overall, with Reinhardt picked more. And in GM, she went from over 9% pickrate to less than 2% pickrate.
Sorry, the fact that Moira is easy mode isnt a “personal skill level issue”. You may not like it, but Baptiste is simply a higher skill floor and ceiling hero than Moira. Live in denial and ad hominemland all you want, it is simply the facts.