A support patch is coming OMG

Firstly, who realistically pockets a Reinhardt? Secondly, this isn’t a synergy. A synergy means that a group of heroes played together allows you to get a ton of extra value. Damage boosting a Reinhard fire strike is not special nor is it a synergy because it’s literally the same as damage boosting any ol’ ability.

You can still secure a hook as Hog by yourself. Just hook, shoot and melee.

No? She wasn’t always a mediocre off-support that’s only purpose was to pocket. Before, she was actually a main healer. People genuinely played her for her heals…

No, it isn’t… At launch Mercy did 50HP until she was buffed because 50HP was trash for a support that deals virtually zero damage and had zero utility. You could bring up Ana but Ana wasn’t even mentioned in the patchnotes for that Mercy buff.

To quote:

Resurrection now allows teammates to jump back into the fight more quickly, which should help Mercy survive after activating her ultimate. Mercy’s healing is also getting a boost to solidify her role as a strong, single-target healer.


But the game hasn’t changed, saying it is a different year, Doesn’t remove the underlaying issue.

Mobility was is too strong. And blizzard has been stacking on cc and easy to aim skills to keep it under control ever since.

Remove the cc, and easy to aim skills, and the SAME problem which was never directly addressed comes right on back.


Well considering that Ana at the time was the only other main healer who do you think was challenging her single target healing prows?

Like it definitely wasn’t the only other main healer that could double their healing output every 10 seconds or so.

As in this was to put her in line with Ana at the time.

Secondly I wasn’t suggesting pocketing the rien, like you know you can still change targets and Saying hey rien firestrike real quick.

Hog can’t secure kills on all targets even with combo, especially if their actively being healed.

thirdly she was the only main healer at launch a role she needed to share if any other main healer was to exist.

“Virtually no Utility” “Complains about damage boost”.

Also I would like to note that most of the other main healers were nerfed to heal around the same amount as mercy.

This includes Moria, Bapt, and Brig. So simply putting her back on 60hps would mean that your asking to put back in the overwelming state she was in while still having her competition that she over shadow be weaker then their were back when she has 60hps.

Would like to point out that after Ana was nerfed into the dirt, the go-to support duo for higher tier play was Zen/ Lucio

It took them adding immunity on her ultimate for her to see any sort of actual competitive playtime; and she was healing 60hps the entire time


Ya but at that point she didn’t have chain healing, or a rez on cooldown so that meta situation was not comperable to now.

Espcially back in that dive Era where supports where the prime target to jump on in all fights. Having Aoe healing a speed boost to get away and healing/ damage boost that didn’t require your primary fire was decent enough to work in situations where their fighting for their life.

I’m sorry but was Ana solely a single target healer? The fact of the matter is, the change in question is only buffing Mercy so she can be where the developers intended for her to be. Not just so she can keep up with Ana.

Except nothing in the developers own comments or the change itself suggests that the buff revolved around Ana. Are you disregarding the likely possibility that Mercy was simply not fulfilling her own role as a single target healer as opposed to her not fulfilling her own role compared to Ana. Your whole argument is based on an assumption that Ana was somehow involved when she doesn’t have to be.

Then why mention it randomly? We’re talking about synergies. I’d prefer if we stayed on topic

Besides Squishies, of course not. The max amount of damage he’s going to do is somewhere between 175 - 200 (there are cases where you don’t need to melee if you get all your headshots off). For targets with higher HP, a 30% damage buff still wouldn’t kill em.

MB, forgot about damage boost. I said virtually no utility because she only had damage boost as her source of utility… Res only comes after her awful rework. Compare that to Ana. :joy:

[Citation Required]

Even now, that isn’t the case. Moira, Ana and Bap have way higher healing outputs than Mercy. Then there’s the off supports where all of em besides Brig output way lower heals than Mercy. How exactly is that “balancing around Mercy?”

Except she didn’t overshadow anyone with her 60HP. Travel back in time to when Mercy got her 13th nerf. After a while, she started to die down and Double Sniper Meta was slowly shifting to GOATs. During this transition period was when the nerf to her heals happened. It was completely unnecessary and was just Blizzard rushing the process of her becoming balanced. Ironically, they made her somewhat underpowered with the nerf and she completely lost her identity as a main healer. Right now, she has the worst of both worlds (as an off-support and main healer).

Mercy with 60HP wasn’t overshadowing anyone. Pre-rework and post-rework. Her heals didn’t even change that much between the two iterations of Mercy even with Valkyrie:

This all points to CD Resurrect making her overshadow every other support. That’s amazing utility. Her heals were never the problem.

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The healing stats you referred to has brought something to my attention.

If they were to revert Mercy back to 60hps, she would have roughly the same amount of healing done as Ana in GM (12,000).

Of course, this is assuming the numbers won’t be very different considering the state of the game now vs back then.

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Me too broski. Moira’s my favorite because she has great area healing, and I love the way the orbs work. Coalescence is cool too. I REALLY hope they don’t completely dumpster her, but people complaining about d a b e a m and d a o r b will probably win out.

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Whoa almost like it would be balanced

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Ok this is going to be a long one Mate

First off if this was to put mercy were they intended her to be why did it take 4 months post release to do so.

As the only major change to the game at that point being Ana a direct competitor to Mercy’s role. Who is yes primarily a single target support I don’t see her bullets doing AOE healing, the nade it’s self was by all means potent but that was still on a 10 second cool-down with its own limitations.

Yes the Devs usually don’t compare heroes to each other, especially when it came to the patch notes. Which is a pretty common thing in most games, Like its always we think their under performing, or we want to push them in such role. And never hero/character B is doing better then A so where pushing A to be on par with B.

Out side of specific interactions like mercy damage boosting dragon strike.

So to say she suddenly was no longer filling that role, and needed to be buff to do so. As you know with the likes of the original triple tank line up Ana quite frankly overshadow mercy almost utterly.

Also I have no Idea what you consider synergy specifically as I was detailing aspect of damage boost and the benefits it can provide to other team members. As in small things you can do to synergies with your team.

That and even in higher ranks you will never just see a mercy exclusively pocket one target all game. Like if your fellow support is being attacked they will ditch the pharah for two seconds to help them peel, if of course their close enough or not putting themselves in more danger in trying to do so.

And regards to hog to hog their are theses heroes called Mei, reaper, torb, and brig that all have 250hp some of it might be in armor. So you adding that 30% to 200 (60 points of damage|POD) can secure those kills that otherwise would get away from him. Or if brig applies armor to other squishes.

Damage boost stuff – Fair enough we all make mistakes my man. but ya that’s partially why they did the original mercy rework.

Currently at the time of this posts creation on the competive tab of the support role bapt is currently about 40 poh (Points of healing)a game from matching mercy’s output.

Ana is about 1000poh below her.

And Moria is roughly 2000 poh above, be it that it is at the cost of any game changing utility like lamp, rez, or nade.

Brig is an outlier at about 1,500 poh lower be it that she also applies like over 4000 points of armor a match so it balances out in that way.

For exact numbers on average

Moria --------13,204 poh

Baptiste-----11,471 poh

Mercy---------11,433 poh

Ana------------10,266 poh

Brig--------------9,963 poh

Oh and ya here is a fun one

Lucio---------10,399 poh

And Quite frankly mercy at 60 hps was still overshadowing many supports at the time, As even having the second highest healing and the most consistent results. do to how her beams lacks any counter mechanic. Yes nade is a thing but thats Stops all healing not just beams healing specifically.

She quite frankly would still be a stable today especially after the mass lowering of healing output where all the main healers out side of ana who was still on the lower end at the time. like everyone got a 10 to a 20 hps reduction.

So just adding 10 to mercy is not a solution they should be looking at.

That’s not to say she dosn’t need a buff or even a good retooling of rez, its just that the healing output is not the answer.

Also I wasn’t talking about pre and post mercy healing output I don’t know where that came into the argument. As the rework mostly overcharged her utility more so her healing.

What do you mean? She got multiple buffs in that timeframe all to make her more powerful. The developers clearly knew that she was weak and wanted to make her more powerful. Their changes reflect that. Their intentions don’t change suddenly because they only address her heals later on.

Plus, you keep mentioning Ana when she was originally perceived to be weak when launched. She got buffs to make her more powerful. From the developers on actions, it looks as if they didn’t see Ana as a problem until later on. This further reinforces the notion that the heal buff for Mercy was completely all to do with Mercy’s power level - it wasn’t just some change to keep her on pace with Ana. That would be weird as well. Why would they buff a hero to catch up with a hero that they supposedly perceive as unbalanced? It doesn’t add up.

Meanwhile, she was perceived as weak by the developers themselves when Ana was launched and she was getting buffs as a result. :skull::skull: Like i said, I sincerely doubt any Mercy buff (she was getting buffs before Ana too) was a result of Ana.

Well ofc not. I’m referring to her antinade which you yourself used hyperboles to describe. Is it suddenly no longer a huge part of her kit?

So now it has limitations? :roll_eyes: That aside, 10 seconds for anti-nade in that iteration isn’t bad at all.

Which further proves that your entire argument is based on the assumption that they are balancing around Ana. That aside, whilst they rarely specifically mention heroes, they do reference heroes in multiple patch notes. To give an example:

Says who? :joy:

Except the patch note in question doesn’t even reference other heroes. It literally just says that they’re buffing Mercy so she can become stronger.

That fiasco? The nerf that was disguised as a bug fix?

I’ll let Titanium take it from here:

The devs didn’t say she was no longer fulfilling that role. The devs said that they are making her stronger so she can fulfil that role better.

Literally every support was overshadowing Mercy back then. Especially during Triple Tank. Before Ana, it was Lúcio and Zen that was dominating. Again, with Mercy being in a perpetual state of trash I still don’t see how Ana is suddenly the reason why she needs buffs.

Because calling that a synergy is just an over exaggeration.

Synergies are like team compositions. A handful of heroes being played at the same time in a certain way to reap extra value. Damage boosting a Reinhardt firestrike is not it.

Funny since I was in high ranks and this is what she’s always used for. That aside, let’s pull up some statistics real quick:

Hmm… Okay then.

You do know that pocketting isn’t just only healing a single target throughout the majority of the game, right? What you’re referring to is throwing. Pocketing is when you heavy focus a single target and constantly stay with them. That doesn’t mean you’re not going to heal the rest of your team though. :joy:

Torb has 250HP?

But the chances of you even dealing 200 dmg on those heroes are slim because of their hitboxes. Your bullets have a higher chance of hitting body shots than headshots when you shoot those heroes. Sorry but a Mercy Damage boost still wouldn’t help you there. That aside, why on Earth would you hook a Mei and Reaper? They hard counter Hog so hard it’s not even funny. Plus, Reaper has lifesteal so hooking him would be pointless.

Anyway, why are we talking about this? As I’ve said, this isn’t a synergy? :joy:

Yes. The rework was a huge mistake. :wink:

I was referring to their healing outputs in a vacuum. Not stats. They all do way more heals than Mercy. As for stats, in GM Mercy is literally doing roughly the same amount of heals as Brig.

What’s worse is that her pickrate in low ranks are also stagnating. She’s being picked less than Ana in Silver - Platinum. That’s tragic. Even in Bronze, she’s 3rd most picked and is still behind Ana. A low skill floor hero is being picked less than a high skill ceiling hero in low ranks… :skull::skull::skull::skull:

No, it wasn’t. I literally linked her healing statistics. They didn’t change post-rework. You can say that her heals suddenly became a problem when no changes were made to heals and her statistics didn’t change either. It’s painfully obvious that CD Res was what made her overshadow the other supports. At the time, it was one of the best forms of utility in the game and was buffed in Mercy’s ultimate.

Overall statistics are not good for seeing who’s balanced. Look at rank specific stats.

  • Anti-Nade?
  • LoS checks after a second
  • Exceeding 15m will break your beam after a second
  • Literally a bright yellow beam

That doesn’t mean it isn’t a counter? That’s like saying Brigitte doesn’t counter Tracer because she also counters Doomfist.

I don’t know what you’re trying to say here. I will say that Mercy, as of now, is not fine and desperately needs changes. Is she closed to balanced though? Definitely. All they need to do is solidify her role as a main healer instead of keeping her in this state of limbo.

Disagreeing a lot here.

Oh god now. Why on Earth would you buff the thing that made Mercy OP in the first place? Literally just leave her already absurd Resurrect alone and focus on her heals. If we buff her utility, she’s going to more of a off-support but she’s still going to be trash in that role. It’s safer and easier to just buff her healing and make her a proper main healer; as she was intended to be.

Then why are you suggesting to keep the nerf? I don’t understand that. You know full well that her utility was clearly the problem but you insist on keeping the nerf that weakened the one thing about Mercy that was balanced and stayed the same throughout her existence?

Just here to throw in my two cents, as a support player…

I hope Moira gets a true rebalance and not just straight nerfs. How about a small resource meter nerf, and a damage nerf on biotic grasp, but a secondary effect on the orb? Like damage orb has a slight heal recieveing reduction (like 30% of an anti-nade) or maybe the potential to fill up resource with an orb. I’d love to see the orbs become even cooler, because they’re honestly my favourite part of her kit.

I also hope Mercy gets a sweet buff, yeah. I like the 10 hps increase being proposed (maybe even 15, but with a power shift from her GA or damage boost, to make her more main-healer-y).

I also hope Bap gets a little buff. Maybe buff the uptime of Immortality Field a bit. Put it up to like 6 or 7 seconds (maybe even back to 8).

That’s all. You can go back to arguing now. Just wanted to get my thoughts out there :).

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I just hope they don’t trash her. I’m keeping my hopes extremely low, cause you never know what’s coming with the ow devs.

Ok to keep this train going

Especially considering that you used “That Quote” of all things.

For starters this line

Was to address the specific interactions between abilities devs bring up in abilities as a caveat to the previous statement.

As Nano interacting with Genji, junkrat tire being blocked by sound barrier,etc
These are not comparing heroes of the same role as to provide reasoning for such changes. But using specific interaction to provide an example of a situation.

As in they would never say we are buffing Mercy to meet the standards of Ana.

But instead providing a proper rebuttal to such statement you use such caveats to try to prove my statement wrong, then make fun of the specific example I gave exempting such examples.

Meaning that whole chunk of text does nothing for you M8. Outside of “That Quote” Which is the sole example of them at least indirectly comparing the supports with each other.

Be it that I do like how you highlighted the part the does back up my claims regarding the influence 60hps mercy had on the game. Well before the rest of the supports had their healing reduced as well. Yet you insist that this of all things be the change to “fix her”. When without a doubt it would be the thing that would make her yet a again broken.

Also I would like to remind you that two months prior to the mercy healing change, Ana did get an increase to her fire rate which in turn increases her healing.

Ya the general public were still getting use to Ana at that point in time, but considering that the devs do collect data on the performance of such heroes.

And considering that they had two months of data demonstrating Ana’s potency, ontop of the fact that the triple tank Meta started just a few weeks after the mercy change with videos dating back sept 26 of that same year.

Even then their were plenty of issues regarding Ana’s meta status well before such, primarily the use of an Ana’s Nano to break into a choke and the need of an opposing Ana to sleep such target.

So ya that mercy change was by all means influenced by ana’s existance, as well as potential/visible potency.

Also I would like to not that she only really got one major buff prior to Ana and that was with self healing be cooldown being reduced from 3 to 1 second upon receiving damage. And outside of that her ult was nerfed by 30%, as well as preventing her beam from stacking with other mercy’s.

and on side note limitations on Ana’s nade I meantioned before. It was an ability that could be blocked, eaten, missed, or even forced to be used solely on her self if threaten. So ya it had limitations.

That and I would much prefer you take half a second to pounder the meaning and context of such statement, before of course isolating it and poking of the statement without even a hint that you took such elements into consideration.

And on the topic of synergies again what ever definition you define is by all means extremely narrow. Be it that by your very definition Rien being nano boosted to reap the extra value that boosting gives to his ult charge is by all means a synergy. Not a Significant one by any means, but one none the less.

For the OWL post Ya she is under powered at the moment we covered that tidbit an interaction and a half ago. And yes she is primarily being used to exploit so pretty potent synergies between Ashe and Pharah, That however isn’t exactly pushing your argument forward, but at most stalling the conversation.

Torb on the other hand does have 200hp + 50 armor and even more when utilizing his ability, Don’t know where you have been.

Hogs hook does leave them stunned long enough for them to hit by a single shot of gun and maybe a melee depending on if their abilities are on cooldown. Even though its not recommended to do so its more then possible to hook combo them with a pre-fire prior to hook. Or of course a mercy damage boost to even the odds. That and adding like a point and a half damage to hook its self is rather funny to me.

Also I do quite enjoy the rework in it’s self However I will say rez was a bad idea from the start.

Also pickrates in any rank that isn’t of the higher end is kind of junk data as anything below maybe diamond are people playing what they want regardless of such really. Ya meta in general does have an effect on such ranks, however its not prevalent at in their effectiveness at such ranks. That and people really like the sniper granny over vanilla angel woman. Sad truth but truth all the same.

for one you posted her rework statistics not her healing statistics past the 50hps change. secondly you provided me with “That Quote” which states otherwise to a quite significant degree.

That and you should never use vacuum outputs to back up your statements. like really? That has nothing to do with are argument. Ya if Ana had nothing blocking and everyone stayed perfectly still and politely stand in a small circle to always get 100% of her nades and shots in the most effeciant way of course she is going to more powerful.

Mercy has 53% winrate in grand master and the third most played support in literrialy rank except plat for some reason.

And again she needs a change but not 60hps one.

and while were on the topic of healing once again you nit pick the limitations of the beam such as such as its breaking a second past lossing LOS, which is odd because you poked fun at me for even mentioning such on Ana’s nade.

And god for bid No I do not want Rez to be buffed, you delusional individual. I want it retooled to something more of a preventative measure, something that I mentioned in a previous post. And quite frankly it is because of that Rez that she can not be directly buffed in any meaningful way.

Lower its potency, make it a precaution not an undo button, all to simply give mercy something she can use without being shackled to such extreme restrictions.

All in all You brought no meaning full arguments to the table, failed to provide any substantial evidence to why 60hps is needed. And did nothing but try to poke fun of my out of context quotes.

good day sir, you I’m done for the night.

if hes so easy, why dont you go play him and get gm, rank 1 and get signed to owl?

It’s not “a bit harder” if they don’t stay very close together, it’s geometrically IMPOSSIBLE.

Even if they did all bunch up as if they’re caught in a grav then what happens when a bionade is thrown at them? Great, now NOBODY gets any healing.

Unless you want to get multiple heroes anti-healed at the same time IT IS single target. You don’t want to bunch up so much.

Just because a hero is easy doesnt mean everyone is going to get to GM.

Many people play Moira and Mercy and arent GM.

In fact, I’ve recently played Reinhardt and so far have gone from low platinum to mid diamond (i was ~2600 and now im 3217 for tank) playing only Reinhardt when hes not banned.

Not to mention, even if I was GM and rank 1 and was offered a spot on an OWL team, I’m not interested in my career being a video game player. I like my current job, even if it will never pay as much as they probably do.

With Mercy the same situation occurs except she would be completely unable to heal.

And even if if was the same situation for both, Mercy would be healing one person at 50hps, meanwhile moira would be healing at 65 for that one person and likely even more if she uses her orb.

Let’s be fair here, Winston is not a DPS, he’s a tank therefore, this should be irrelevant.

OWL sounds like a more stressful job than dealing with drunks in a 711 after a bar rush.